Fantasy car buying..

[J!SH!]

Aerial Atom
i love it, it looks so cool and the handling must be awesome

[Dustwave]

I'd wait for the Atom 500...an Atom with over 500 hp at 10000rpm! More than 1000hp a tonne! That thing is going to be completely mad

[Thirst]

^ And a 4 seater would be even crazier.

Originally Posted by Dustwave

Why would it be bigger? It's essentially the same car as the normal 5 series.

Sorry I meant compared to the e60.

Originally Posted by Dustwave

I dunno about that...The e60 was seen as the ugliest bmw ever too when it first came out, yet now many people including myself love it. It's far too early to judge it...especially since it's a car that doesn't even exist yet other than some highly camouflaged testing models.

The e60 was seen as far out. This new one just seems quite boring. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoxCKO7Xflc I like the strong lines along its flanks though.

Originally Posted by Dustwave

I doubt it. It's an M5.

This is true.

[Dustwave]

Originally Posted by Thirst

I like the strong lines along its flanks though.

Yeah that's my favorite part, those lines on the flanks and the roof line towards the rear. Very very much like the e92.

Originally Posted by Thirst

This new one just seems quite boring. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoxCKO7Xflc

I never put too much value in what reports say...most of them have no more of an idea what they are talking about than anyone else. Luckily i get to try it for myself in 2 weeks...can't wait.

[J!SH!]

Originally Posted by Dustwave

I'd wait for the Atom 500...an Atom with over 500 hp at 10000rpm! More than 1000hp a tonne! That thing is going to be completely mad

nah i like the Ariel better, its McHot

[PhineasFreak]

Originally Posted by J!SH!

nah i like the Ariel better, its McHot

duh...
same thing - the car you posted a pic of is an Ariel Atom. the car Dustie mentions is a more powerful Ariel Atom.

[J!SH!]

Originally Posted by PhineasFreak

duh...
same thing - the car you posted a pic of is an Ariel Atom. the car Dustie mentions is a more powerful Ariel Atom.

no it looks a bit different, its longer and i dont like its extra length or curves

[Dustwave]

Oh boy...i think i just pissed myself laughing so hard...

Wy the F*CK would you care about looks on a car like that? It's looks are the very very very very very very very very very last reason anyone should buy that car. Heck, if that's your reason you shouldn't even be ALLOWED to buy an atom. And just for the record, no, it is not longer and the curves are identical. The main visual difference are the front and rear spoilers.

[J!SH!]

Originally Posted by Dustwave

Oh boy...i think i just pissed myself laughing so hard...

Wy the F*CK would you care about looks on a car like that? It's looks are the very very very very very very very very very last reason anyone should buy that car. Heck, if that's your reason you shouldn't even be ALLOWED to buy an atom. And just for the record, no, it is not longer and the curves are identical. The main visual difference are the front and rear spoilers.

i think it looks different, and i like the way the car looks, the stats of the car are good but you would never use them anyway.
so i pick a car on the looks and i like the way it looks

[PhineasFreak]

Originally Posted by J!SH!

...the stats of the car are good but you would never use them anyway...

it's a track-day car sold pretty much exclusively to people who use them on the track - hence the "stats" of the car get "used" to the full pretty much all the time...

the fact is pretty much intended as a track-car is the explanation behind the styling - no inclination towards aesthetics except function defining form and so the appeal to those who understand the reasoning behind the design features...

[J!SH!]

Originally Posted by PhineasFreak

it's a track-day car sold pretty much exclusively to people who use them on the track - hence the "stats" of the car get "used" to the full pretty much all the time...

the fact is pretty much intended as a track-car is the explanation behind the styling - no inclination towards aesthetics except function defining form and so the appeal to those who understand the reasoning behind the design features...

well i like the way it looks

[Thirst]

Originally Posted by Dustwave

Wy the F*CK would you care about looks on a car like that? It's looks are the very very very very very very very very very last reason anyone should buy that car.

Looks are the last reason anyone would be browsing that market in the first place, but given that they are, its the primary reason they'd buy an Atom. Knowing its extremely capable anyway, there's nothing else that looks like it. Im sure many will appreciate the styling, and being able to see the mechanicals. Why would they bother designing it so otherwise? Same with the KTM X-BOW. Its also the reason why Caterham's are so iconic - because the shape has been retained and many like it.
And Phineas I disagree, there is a big incliation toward aesthetics. What, you think they just designed the most capable road legal track machine, then stepped back and said "hey check it out, it looks kinda cool too"?

[Dustwave]

Originally Posted by J!SH!

i think it looks different, and i like the way the car looks, the stats of the car are good but you would never use them anyway.

Oh jesus dude! IT IS A ****ING TRACK CAR! The people who own these max them out pretty much every time they use them!

Originally Posted by Thirst

Looks are the last reason anyone would be browsing that market in the first place, but given that they are, its the primary reason they'd buy an Atom.

No it's not! Performance is! It's nice that it looks cool, but that's just a bonus, not the reason to get it!

Originally Posted by Thirst

Knowing its extremely capable anyway, there's nothing else that looks like it.

There aren't? Then i must have been temporarily BLIND when i saw a Deronda Type F batch on a car that looked suspiciously much like an Atom. Oh look, i'm temporarily blind again when i look at these pictures: *click*, *click*
There are plenty of cars that look similar to the Atom. But very few that drive like an Atom. Hence. People. Buy. It.

Originally Posted by Thirst

Im sure many will appreciate the styling, and being able to see the mechanicals.

I didn't say they don't, i said that's not the reason they get it!

Originally Posted by Thirst

Why would they bother designing it so otherwise?

Because it is functional!

Originally Posted by Thirst

Same with the KTM X-BOW.

No, not the same. The X-bow is a bad car and people who want pure performance and are serious about it won't buy an X-bow. KTM should stick to bikes, they aren't capable of making a proper car (yet).

Originally Posted by Thirst

Its also the reason why Caterham's are so iconic - because the shape has been retained and many like it.

And why is it iconic? Right, because it is functional. They are very fast and very good and they are great little toy cars. Again, the looks are just a bonus. I'm not saying people don't appreciate the looks, but that is NOT why people get them nor why Caterham doesn't really change the shape (nor did Lotus, nor Donkervoort, nor Westfield, nor any of the other manufacturers who make/made cars in that shape and form).

Originally Posted by Thirst

And Phineas I disagree, there is a big incliation toward aesthetics. What, you think they just designed the most capable road legal track machine, then stepped back and said "hey check it out, it looks kinda cool too"?

No of course not. They designed the most capable road legal track machine and then did whatever they could to make it look cool without compromising function.

I talk to people who own these cars all the time, i have driven these three cars and regularly drive various cars of this type. I am "in" this scene, i know what's going on, i know what the people who actually buy these cars think and i know why they choose what they choose. Design is a bonus, but for cars like these it is never the reason.

[Thirst]

Originally Posted by Dustwave

No it's not! Performance is! It's nice that it looks cool, but that's just a bonus, not the reason to get it!

Hence I said "knowing its extremely capable anyway". I meant its the deciding factor. I like how you flipped what I said on the first three quotes.

Originally Posted by Dustwave

There aren't? Then i must have been temporarily BLIND when i saw a Deronda Type F batch on a car that looked suspiciously much like an Atom. Oh look, i'm temporarily blind again when i look at these pictures: *click*, *click*
There are plenty of cars that look similar to the Atom. But very few that drive like an Atom. Hence. People. Buy. It.

Ok let me re-phrase. You hardly ever see an Atom-like car on the road (I never have). They turn heads and look cool. A bonus over others in its catagory - hence the deciding factor. And those cars you posted look inferior on top of (acccording to you) being dynamically inferior to the Atom.
Yes the X-BOW is apprently crappy, but you gotta give it to KTM because it looks so insane. In fact, thats a car I can imagine people buying primarily for its looks (you can imagine rappers having one on Cribs, "check it out right here...right here is my toy right here next to my other cars right here").

Originally Posted by Dustwave

I talk to people who own these cars all the time, i have driven these three cars and regularly drive various cars of this type. I am "in" this scene, i know what's going on, i know what the people who actually buy these cars think and i know why they choose what they choose. Design is a bonus, but for cars like these it is never the reason.

That doesn't explain why J!SH! wants an Atom, or anyone else other than the people you've talked to. C'mon, you're always rebuking Shah on this very type of logic fail.

[Dustwave]

Originally Posted by Thirst

Hence I said "knowing its extremely capable anyway".

I said what i said fully aware of that.

Originally Posted by Thirst

I like how you flipped what I said on the first three quotes.

I didn't flip anything. I think you are not catching my drift.

Originally Posted by Thirst

I meant its the deciding factor.

Except that it isn't. You're not catching my drift. When i said performance is the reason to get an atom i did not mean performance is the reason to get a track car, i meant exactly what i said. Performance is the reason to get an atom, over other track cars. Mind that that's performance for the price combined with practicality.

Originally Posted by Thirst

You hardly ever see an Atom-like car on the road (I never have).

Of course not. They are track cars and apart from driving to and from the track owners very rarely take them out on public roads. Atoms are actually more common on public roads than most other track cars because they are relatively good on public roads. Which is another reason why an Atom is a good choice for a track car, a trailer isn't a necessity.

Originally Posted by Thirst

They turn heads and look cool. A bonus over others in its catagory - hence the deciding factor.

Except that to the people who actually buy these cars that is not a bonus at all. They don't care about turning heads. They care about performance, that's why they are track cars! They will rarely take them out on public roads anyway other than to and from the track. And even if you do care about turning heads, every car in that sector turns heads. The real bonus over others is the way it performs combined with price, practicality, accessibility and simply because Ariel got it's name heard while most similar companies stay under the radar.

Originally Posted by Thirst

And those cars you posted look inferior on top of (acccording to you) being dynamically inferior to the Atom.

So?
And don't forget that there are many many more little track car manufacturers that nobody except a handful of enthusiasts have ever even heard of. There are cars that are better looking (which of course is entirely a matter of opinion) and there are cars that are better performing than the Atom.

Originally Posted by Thirst

Yes the X-BOW is apprently crappy, but you gotta give it to KTM because it looks so insane. In fact, thats a car I can imagine people buying primarily for its looks (you can imagine rappers having one on Cribs, "check it out right here...right here is my toy right here next to my other cars right here").

It certainly does look insane. But it is not in the same niche market the Atom is in. The balance between show-off-ness and performance is completely different than an Atom, which is why it is not really a fair comparison.

Originally Posted by Thirst

That doesn't explain why J!SH! wants an Atom, or anyone else other than the people you've talked to.

Except that it doesn't have to. He already said he wants one for it's looks, but is he actually going to buy one? No he is not. What matters are the people who DO actually buy cars like these. It's a niche market that is entirely about performance and driving, and unless that is what you're looking for you simply don't buy a car like this.

Originally Posted by Thirst

C'mon, you're always rebuking Shah on this very type of logic fail.

Logic fail? According to who? What Jish and others like him want doesn't matter at all. They do not actually buy these cars. They are sold pretty much exclusively to car nerds who only care about how the car drives, and that is what these cars are meant for.

[J!SH!]

Originally Posted by Dustwave

Logic fail? According to who? What Jish and others like him want doesn't matter at all.

maybe you misread the forum title, i should remind you "Fantasy car buying.."
so why snap at me, i said it was my fantasy car and why. i dont care why everyone else buys it as its the I want for the looks. i understand people buy it for power, i understand people buy it for tracks. but i said that I, as in ME, wanted it for its looks. i dont care if it has a 2 cylinder engine or even 1! i want it cause it looks cool



Thirst

[Dustwave]

Originally Posted by J!SH!

maybe you misread the forum title, i should remind you "Fantasy car buying.."

On the contrary: Fantasy car BUYING.

Originally Posted by J!SH!

but i said that I, as in ME, wanted it for its looks. i dont care if it has a 2 cylinder engine or even 1! i want it cause it looks cool

And i say that doesn't make sense. Maybe this analogy makes it more clear: Would you want a beautiful toaster for it's looks? Of course not. I get that it looks desirable, and it's great if you can get one that looks good (without compromising any functionality), but if you're not going to toast stuff it makes no sense to want at toaster in the first place (nevermind buy one).

[90degrees]

918 Spyder...yumm


http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fo...cke-52410.html

[Dustwave]

Originally Posted by 90degrees

918 Spyder...yumm

It looks kinda cool and i hope it can make the claims about action radius and performance come true. Nevertheless, it's a hybrid and thus inherently flawed.

[90degrees]

as you're dutch and prolly speak german I'm sure you've understood the comments, 3 litres per 100 km doesn't sound too bad does it?
716 bhp divided onto the 4.6 V8 petrol engine with app 500 bhp plus 216 bhp onto the e-engines is no bad feat. So as Walther Roehrl drove it off the stage on pure electricity it means you roll into inner Londons currently £8 a day costing congestion charge zone with your middle finger high and proud in the air (e-cars and hybrids are exempt) but admittedly only for 25 km, still enough for a nice cruise through.
Maybe time for a re-think Dustie? But I know what you mean, the green credentials may pay off in the running of it but never in producing it.
Although I could imagine it being beneficial to the center of gravity (shame they used a V8 and not a flat 6 or 8) when doing tracks.
Also an example for do-ability as the US will impose stricter rules on emissions and fuel consumption from 2012, actually already in force but cheaply bought out by special permits (put onto purchase price and paid for by the customer), think around $800 at the mo but increasing to something around the $30k mark by 2016.

Edit:
the quotet $30k comes from wheelbase in relation to overall length/weight and power which puts smaller high powered cars (mostly european) at disadvantage to the obese US car makers model dimensions, aiming for 5.7l / 100 km or 41.4 miles / gallon for Porsche models according to some crude protectionist formula