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Unread May 9th, 2007, 03:47 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Sorry for hi-jacking a little (again) and thanks gotwf for your PM last night.

As i said to you in my reply I think you are very knowledgeable and far from stupid, the fact that you took my post to share your opinions seems to had me heating up a bit. Over some budget components, fookin' geek talk...

Sure it is easier to build a 2 grand machine with "proper" more future proof components as to -as you pointed out very correctly- last generation high to mid-range stuff that has now made it into budget class. I saw a challenge in trying to provide the best possible configuration from one dealers offerings to keep p&p down to a minimum. I hope that apart from that Spiral isn't too confused and is on his way to build his machine. Maybe it wasn't too bad either as he might take into account to save up a little more and tune his spec list a little.
I'm sure gotwf, dustwave, myself and all who dropped their opinion here are more than happy to give some input and even if we're not of same opinion a consens can be found, or products, that help towards that computer build.

Now what about that homebrew gotwf???
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Unread May 9th, 2007, 12:37 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default AMD QuadCore CPU's ??

Some thoughts on AMD CPU's.....

AMD QuadCore CPU's been released yet? I don't think so but when last I checked they were slated for 2nd quarter 2007 so if not yet then fairly soon now?? End of June is end of 2nd quarter. If so it may be worth postponing this system build 2-3 months. Give you a chance to add a few more dollars to the budget. Also, if history is any indication we can expect significant drop in pricing of current generation stuff. For example the once $800+ CPU in my workstation is presently available for under $300. The present generation AMD dual core socket is supposed to offer seamless upgrade to quad core. Something that may be worth considering? Grab a lower end AM2 now with an eye to potential to upgrade to quad when the pricing becomes more reasonable if you need more juice? OTOH, and I haven't yet done my homework on this front, XP is for 1-2 CPU's and not sure how much quad core is going to get you... Anyhow, just some thoughts that crossed my mind this morning. Now where's that coffee....
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Last edited by gotwf : May 9th, 2007 at 12:57 PM.
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Unread Jun 8th, 2007, 04:25 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 90degrees
try the standard heatsink first, if you find it too loud or you going to OC go for the Arctic Cooler or Ninja Scythe, either Coolermaster case will accommodate their sizes. You'll just have to put up with dismantling your rig again to mount the backplate for the cooler on the other side of your MoBo.
My question regarding this. The PC will not be located in an air conditioned environment. I wish I could say otherwise. I have a photo studio in my garage, and my desk is facing one of the walls. In the middle of the summer, it's going to be miserably hot, but I'll be running a plethora of fans.
Should I still try the standard heatsink in this case or move right up to something that might be more efficient for the temperatures I'm going to be dealing with?
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Unread Jun 8th, 2007, 05:07 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The cooler upgrade gives you more headroom of course, if it was me i would go that extra bit.
Good for stability and though i'm still clinging to my AMDs (but will fall for Intel's sweet temptation sooner or later) kudos to Intel,
temperaturewise they've really improved, those are now well away from the redhot P4 levels.
Yes, go for a different cooler, saves you the hassle should you find out it does get too hot in your shed.
A utility like Motherboard Monitor or SpeedFan can help monitoring and your motherboard's BIOS will suggest a few shut down temperature settings to prevent meltdown.

you can try that keep-the-sidecover-off thing but sometimes the push-pull effect of the fans in a closed case can be more effective.

Last edited by 90degrees : Jun 8th, 2007 at 05:11 PM.
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Unread Jun 11th, 2007, 05:35 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Ok, now I can't help to throw in my two cents.
On the Mobo side stay away from the 650 chipset by ALL MEANS. They are horrible performers and a nightmare to overclock even a bit. The 680 are completely different but as you won't need sli - scrap them!

Go for an Intel 965 based board. Asus P-5B is good value for money and great to overclock (safe OCin) if you don't need a raid.

CPU is no question asked . C2D 6X20 series - I run the 6420 (amongst others) at 2.66Ghz. That's the E6600's clock speed. If you get a good motherboard you can get away with DDR2-667 as you will be able to run the FSB at 333 independant of the CPU clock. By that you will run memory well inside it's specifications. The money you can save there is better invested in cooling.
As the Q6600 are also announced to receive a major price cut this summer, they may even become an option. In your environment you would surely need to think about REALLY good cooling when considering that cpu - as they run much hotter than E6600's (well, two more cores in the same space).

Please be aware that some aftermarket coolers do a great job in cooling the CPU - especially the heatpipe versions but DO NOT generate sufficient airflow to cool the chipset.
Huge coolers also have the tendency to obstruct the airflow through the case and you may encounter heat pockets. Keep a close eye on that as well as the northbridge temps.
As I am in a very hot (and dusty) area - namely in southern Spain - I decided to use water cooling and I have not regretted it one single day. If heat REALLY is a problem on your end have a look into that area as noise DOES become an issue when you spend long hours next to a PC.
Sound dampening with mats and good cooling by fans are somehow contrary aspects. Every fan that you use will generate noise. For fans to be effective the airflow INTO the case has to be equal to the air being sucked out. Naturally that means holes and fans as well as even more fans, as the matting disrupts the airflow per se. It's anything BUT a smooth surface and creates gazillions of small turbulences on it's surface. So they are best used when you DON'T have to rely on airflow alone for cooling (such as water cooling).

MSI is NOT one of my favorite brands - PERIOD

When buying the graphics card you may want to make sure to take the cooler off, clean the GPU and use something like arctic-silver - especially if the cards are by Sapphire or Club3D. Who ever assembles those thinks that plenty is always good and the thermal paste they use resembles the look of chewing gum (the one you find on the sidewalks and under seats).

With the PSU's there is another thing to look at. The power ratings are the maximum power consumption of the psu, NOT what they supply. There are HUGE differences in the effectiveness of those PSU. Some 'bread and butter' units are just at 65% - meaning 35% of the energy is directly converted into heat. Good ones will be around 80% some even 85%. One also needs to bear in mind that PSU's have effective load ranges where they work best. On most psu's this is in between 40-80% of their capacity. Good units will have a spectrum from 30 ->90%.

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