What is a "black hole"?

[Don Dutta]

oyeah..!

[its-exit]

Originally Posted by Rockymtns4fr

I'm sick and tired of blacks trying to tie their race to everything.

First, it was the NAACP, then the Black Engineers of America, now it's Black Holes.

Enough of this race-centric stuff already.

AMEN....

Lets just call them what they are..... Colorless holes..... or color lacking holes....

lol

[Deimya]

Originally Posted by its-exit

I suppose you guys are right. I suppose my ideas are a 'crackpot theorie'.....

As i'm sure were ideas such as the planet being round once upon a time....

It's true I have no proof to backup my 'crackpot theorie', however, just because I havn't sat down and acctually created a formula or some mathematical explination to prove my theory correct doesn't mean I'm wrong eigther.

For all you guys know... someone might come along and create a new form of math that proves my ideas or someone elses with completely differnt beliefs of the current scientific community. Then again maybe there is so much proof that my ideas couldn't possibly near the surface (doubt it), I am not educated in this field.

Eigther way.... a lot of the greatest problems our race have faced has usually been solved by what started off as IDEAS that were more outside of the box and origional......

I guess what I was looking for in this thread was a shift of perception from the norm....

Didn't get it

I must admit that many concepts can be well expanded beyond their traditional framework using ideas and analogies. Every researchers, not only of the intuitive kind, do it all the time. Thinking "outside the box", or creativity, is a necessary aptitude to have for any research activities. In fact it is an almost obligatory everyday activity. Doing formal reasoning and mathematics is another obligatory everyday activity, and for good reasons.

I see it's a collective "cosmic brain fart" you wanted here, that's nice, but be prepare to have many that will see it for what it's worth I would advice a short lurk in the "New Theories" forums at www.physorg.com to quickly understand the awful smell of a collective "cosmic brain fart". It's frightening.

Anyway, my general, undirected point is that you first have to know well what is the traditional framework if you want to break away from it. Many flights of fancy are unknowingly way more traditional than ordinary, dry science for the simple fact that they have the ever alive traditional shortcoming of not taking into account the existing mass of knowledge. Do take it into account and you'll be many miles ahead of every "crackpot theorists". Oh, and have a look at the crackpot index, it's an entertaining read

Coming back on topic, here's a interesting "fringe science" idea about black holes;
At the core of every black hole, i.e. the true gravitational singularity, is the initial singularity (or big bang) of a new, inaccessible universe (see the possible little fallacy here ?), just like the artistic rendering in this thread. Each new universe might have slightly or totally different universal constants (fine structure, speed of light, plank's constant, etc), or even completely different natural laws, decided upon by some as of yet unknown principle. As such, each new universe would have a certain affinity to produce new black holes (we can see that ours has it since it produces black holes). This black hole zoo, sometimes called the anthropic principle (which means different things to different people), would behave a bit like an evolving ecosystem, with universes producing more consistent physics laws, which can sustain more cosmic structures, life or any other self-organizing system without imploding right off the bath, being more fit and thus are naturally selected in the grand scheme of things to produce more black holes, ad infinitum. Without any need for a purpose, an evolution of physics law could produce fine tuned universes which can reproduce themselves with black holes as seeds.

Now string theory has its own anthropic principle (its their last idea "à la mode"), which is a bit reminiscent of the above fringe idea, but their problem is that they are trying to make an argument out of something in a dreadful need for arguments. Instead of "black holes reproduction", they're talking about different "vacuum solutions", with each having their own string physics laws.

Exercise left for Shah : Turn this into a good sexual innuendo.

[Brandon P]

Originally Posted by Dustwave

Actually, it really IS bleeding into the hole. Because the escape velocity is higher than the speed of light, there's no light coming out of it. It's being sucked back in, as is any light going towards it. So yeah, the light really is "bleeding" into the black hole. Then again, you don't see that. The light you see is just bent towards us by the gravitational pull.

i suppose optical illusion is the wrong word.

[Deimya]

Originally Posted by shahsxfx

I'm out man! Totally done with black holes!
I'm moving on to the more satisfying brown hole exploration.

That did it anyway !

[Brandon P]

one of the more interesting topics to discuss about black holes (or should i say colourless holes )
is that a common law in physics is a simple one, energy can not be created from nothing, nor can energy just disappear.
so the real question is this law incorrect?
because it has to go somewhere.
or is it a warp in the universe?

[Deimya]

Things don't get "eaten up" by black hole, they get squished and ripped at the event horizon. From your perspective, stuff will approach the event horizon more and more, slowing down the closer it is to it. In fact, you never see something entering a black hole because from your point of view it takes an infinite amount of time to do it. All the energy/mass is radiated during its downward agony or what is left adds up to the total mass of the black hole. Does that make sense ?

[Brandon P]

Originally Posted by Deimya

Things don't get "eaten up" by black hole, they get squished and ripped at the event horizon. From your perspective, stuff will approach the event horizon more and more, slowing down the closer it is to it. In fact, you never see something entering a black hole because from your point of view it takes an infinite amount of time to do it. All the energy/mass is radiated during its downward agony or what is left adds up to the total mass of the black hole. Does that make sense ?

I would say so.
The law of conservation of energy and mass must always be conserved.
Also anything that has energy has a mass.
I would say it's more then possible that the mass a black hole is presented with ends up being "compressed" if you will, and joins to the greater mass of the hole itself.

[Rockymtns4fr]

I'm thinking Shah wasn't far off - maybe we should just call it a 'masshole'.

Edit: And taking it further, that would explain why there are so many massholes in the universe. See? It all comes together.

[Rockymtns4fr]

Yep, and that's why you see and hear so much crap spewing from massholes.

I think we're onto something. We could call it...Advanced Stink Theory.

[FallingMoon]

Originally Posted by marensman

a common misconception about black holes (mentioned above too) is that inside of the event horizon you can see the black hole. at the event horizon the pull of gravity is such that no light can get out. closer to the black hole gravity is stronger not weaker. you can only see light falling in. no light is returned from the black hole at these distances not that you would be alive to see it anyway...

Yep very true. But then again who really knows what is seem inside there since nothing can escape or live to tell the story lol.

Very X-File if you ask me :lays music:: do do dom dom dooo dooo
Discovery had a great show on Black Holes not so long ago, very informative.

[its-exit]

Originally Posted by shahsxfx

No no not ass.........oh you said mass hole!

Ok first thing first it's not a hole!
There are two constants in the universe
1) You cannot create nor destroy energy / matter you can only change it's state!
2) The fabric of space time (and all the other 9 dimensions) can not be torn and or punctured. It can only be bent.

So a black hole isn't a hole in the sense that it's a hold, it's a very deep cravas / crack / cone with very steep sides. And this is due to it's massive core. Stuff (light matter bad DJ's ) fall into this cone, as they get closer and closer to the center they speed up as if they are falling into....you got it a hole! As they accelerate matter is torn apart stretched out and energy while energy like light and x rays and bottle of Red Bull are twisted and pulled further from their tethers (one the part about energy being both a particle and a wave and the only way to get this is to have an out of balance dumbbell, think lawn dart spinning in the air) and as things get closer and closer to the bottom the speed increased till it just about reaches the speed of light all the particles and the energy get excited, as if their g spots were being massaged by a high end French tickler and then all a sudden when they are at 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% the speed of light
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WWWWWWWWWWWWW
The money shot!
High powered, highly excited particles as spewed across the universe and into the eyes of some middle of the road conservative sun in a far off distance who has said that she's never done this kind of thing before.

that has to be the best post you've ever made..


On another note...and im just throwing this idea out there....

Do you think its possible that eventually all the galaxies of the universe will have trainwrecked into each other and created super massive blackholes the likes of which are not imagined.... till one day.... there are only 2 super massive galaxies left and their 2 super massive black holes crash into each other and eventually become the last remaining blackhole that collapses the universe into itself since all matter would pretty much be in one dense location. Thus probably causing another big bang.....?

[Rockymtns4fr]

Most likely.

And why are massholes always depicted as one-sided? That is, all the mass is flowing into a cone in one orientation? Why aren't they depicted as 3D, with many 'cones'.

[[Seattle]]

I think that picture in your first post is fake

[Acoustiks]

Originally Posted by [Seattle]

I think that picture in your first post is fake

LOL WUT?! Duh, ever hear opf photoshop? I think it was just an exaggeration.

[[Seattle]]

Originally Posted by Acoustiks

LOL WUT?! Duh, ever hear opf photoshop? I think it was just an exaggeration.

YOU WILL DIE

[Return of the Socks]

A black hole is a area of super dense gravity. The gravity becomes so dense that particles begin to fall on themselves and then create a infinite point of matter. The word "void" is often used to describe how time in a black hole is non existant, making light unable to escape. It isn't the gravity which traps the light, but the lack of time to escape. Black holes are an abnormality in the Law of Conservation of energy. Matter becomes trapped in black holes forever, while a mirror of energy is released as radiation to contitnue the constant of conservation. But the problem is that the matter did not escape, it was just mirrored. If a black hole were to suddenly stop, then all the matter that became trapped in the void would be released, and cause a disbalance in the constant.

Thats when I think that the universe isn't in equilibrium, that the reason why our universe is expanding is because the matter trapped in a black hole is being converted to pure space fabric. I believe the law of energy, isn't supposed to be balanced. That the true law is in fact supposed to cause a infinite growth. This would explain our observations of the universe, and would prove that energy can be infinite and free. Virtual particles will no longer be freaks of nature but a true view of the space fabric conversion process. Our universe is in constant compansation.

Anyway, I probably look like a nut, but thats just my opinnion. But hey, no one's done the math to disprove it.

[FallingMoon]

I saw an awesome special on Black Holes on the History channel this weekend!! They were explaining how dark energy had something to do with creations of black holes.

Very informative!

[bobbias]

Socks, I do not believe that time is stopped in a black hole, because think of it, isn't the gravity of the singularity increasing to beyond the speed of light a much more plausible explanation than throwing out a bunch of tried and true observations?

There is no definitive proof that Hawking Radiation exists, it's still very theoretical, and your argument acts as though it was proven.

[Acoustiks]

Originally Posted by [Seattle]

YOU WILL DIE

Hah, we'll see about that!

Also all this info on black holes is really cool.