I'm a big complainer, and my life reflects it...

[Firebug]

One can fit into all sorts of aspects of life perfectly fine without being physically attractive. However, love is always stated as the high card. Job, money whatever, those don't matter as much as love. It's amazing how people who get to be in relationships just don't understand this. Not being able to be loved = not being able to be happy. Now I'm not saying it starts instantly, but as you push past a decade, and you continue on for years after that... can you seriously tell me you could be happy if you got rejected for a good 12 and a half years straight? Would it be possible to not see yourself as ugly?

Ok, so lets say you got into the college program that is your top choice of anything at any school, and lets say your future looked really good in that career. Lets say you have tons of friends and family that cares about you. Is this going to make you happy about your life, when you can't be loved?

While I do understand there is a major difference between professional and personal life, the fact remains that you can have tons of money and being doing the exact job you want to do, but if you don't have love, you have crap all. So I think the romantic stuff is a necessary link between a person and happiness.

[Bubble Wrap]

Originally Posted by lilacfairy

*irony on* so what are you guys saying? if you're ugly you can just shoot yourself in the head right now, because you'll never be happy? is this an evolutionary principle of self-selection? *irony off*

and I wasn't particularly talking about romantic relationships, harpred seemed to refer to all other aspects in life as well. and saying that you can't lead a successful happy life just because you don't fit into social norms of appearance to me just seems like an excuse.

I agree with you completly

however from past experiences I know exactly where harpred and firebug are coming from. when you get shot down once or twice finding someone can seem hopeless at times, becuase it sort of validates your insecurites.

If you try, you at least have a chance
but if you just give up, then you're gauranteed to be miserable.
no matter how daunting the task you must stand up to it.

Even if you fail, at your death bed you'll know you've tried, but if you give up you will be filled with even more regret

[Firebug]

Originally Posted by Bubble Wrap

I agree with you completly

however from past experiences I know exactly where harpred and firebug are coming from. when you get shot down once or twice finding someone can seem hopeless at times, becuase it sort of validates your insecurites.

If you try, you at least have a chance
but if you just give up, then you're gauranteed to be miserable.
no matter how daunting the task you must stand up to it.

Even if you fail, at your death bed you'll know you've tried, but if you give up you will be filled with even more regret

I'm really trying to find happiness in the knowledge that I have tried (with the exception of a couple years). Happiness in the thought that despite how many times for how long I have been turned down, hey, at least I tried and I shouldn't regret that. Because... uhhh... because... oh, I'll be filled with regret of not trying instead of the grand happiness of knowing that I tried over and over while I've known it's 99.9% inevitable that I'll be turned down again. But I must stand up and try for this grand happiness called love and make a fool of myself again. Well, I have a couple in my aim at the time being, and I'll try my best. But I don't expect anything different from the norm.

[Bubble Wrap]

Originally Posted by Firebug

I've known it's 99.9% inevitable that I'll be turned down again

you have to stop thinking like that, its poison to your livelyhood
you don't really know its 99.9% ineveitable
thats your pessimism talking.
think about your past relationships, and really analyze why you were rejected, and if you would be better off or not(it may not be what you think). I hope you're learning from your failures and changing your approach at every oppurtunity. Another thing try to date girls in your league. if your a six and their a nine of course they ll reject you, because they know they can get something better, and i'm sure you would reject a three knowing you can get a least a six.

theres a radiohead lyric which can be applied in a positive or negative way
"just cuz you feel it, doesnt mean its there"

to be optimisitc, one must also be courageous
you think its easy for me to think this way when i'm always surrounded by pessimistic people
It can be tiring at times, but i can sleep better knowing people can view a more colorful world through my eyes

[Firebug]

Originally Posted by Bubble Wrap

you have to stop thinking like that, its poison to your livelyhood
you don't really know its 99.9% ineveitable
thats your pessimism talking.
think about your past relationships, and really analyze why you were rejected, and if you would be better off or not(it may not be what you think). I hope you're learning from your failures and changing your approach at every oppurtunity. Another thing try to date girls in your league. if your a six and their a nine of course they ll reject you, because they know they can get something better, and i'm sure you would reject a three knowing you can get a least a six.

theres a radiohead lyric which can be applied in a positive or negative way
"just cuz you feel it, doesnt mean its there"

to be optimisitc, one must also be courageous
you think its easy for me to think this way when i'm always surrounded by pessimistic people
It can be tiring at times, but i can sleep better knowing people can view a more colorful world through my eyes

While there is a lot of good points here, I am not willing to lower my standards. Of course it would help me if I did, but on the other hand, I wouldn't be being who I am, but rather I would be being someone else. For the record though in all honesty, even though my mind tells me I am ugly, I'd really put myself at about an 8. I'm not God's gift to women or anything, but I ain't low on the scale. To continue with my honesty, I really think it is my attitude itself. I am pessimistic as you have likely long since noticed.

My optimism tells me I am great with women, but my pessimism looks at the past few years where I haven't trusted women any more than I would trust a rapist. This is my fundamental flaw in any approach I make towards women. At the drop of the hat I become bipolar in this exact area, and they notice it. It isn't me who is ugly, but rather my attitude. But it is still hard to not feel ugly.

[Bubble Wrap]

Originally Posted by Firebug

It isn't me who is ugly, but rather my attitude.

look at it this way
you can change this, and its not out of your control

and with control, there is always hope
but remember, everyone feels ugly sometimes, even the attractive people

[lilacfairy]

I know it's hard, even though I consider myself one of the lucky ones. But even I have not always been like this. I used to be shy and thought I was ugly and I still know I'm not model material. But my bf loves me whether I have a crooked nose or not.

Yes, I also know that being rejected is tough, but take my flatmate for example, she's not even trying. Just because she's a bit overweight and quite inexperienced for her age, I feel she has given up! At 24! Should I tell her "well, you're right, your chances to meet mr. right are too low to bother."??? No, of course not, I try to give her confidence in herself and encourage her to go out more. Maybe her chances are low (although I don't believe they are), but if you don't go out there your chances are 0. and low is better than nil.

now I'm not encouraging her or you to go hunting for possible partners, because that doesn't work too well I believe. But just being out there and meeting people increases your chances by far.
Firebug, in your case it might be different, it seems you are out there, but have a mental barrier maybe? and I don't blame you, considering what happened in your past. that is a different matter.

and hey, life isn't fair, some of us have to work harder than others. but that doesn't mean it's hopeless. you've got to make the best of it.

[Bubble Wrap]

^the challenge often makes the goal more rewarding as a result

a dorky guy who gets with a super model after being rejected a number of times is going to enjoy that experience more
than some good looking guy who can get good looking women easily

[Firebug]

You two do make some great points.

As for giving up and only being 24, I can understand that. I was 22 when I gave up and am now just getting back around to trying again, at 26. It is mindboggling to some people, as expressed by your exclamation marks, I'm betting you're one of those people. Maybe not a complete mindboggle, but there is likely something that you just can't grasp about the situation. However, luckily for me I seem to have found one that seems worth trying for. Her personality and her appearance... very, very appealing. *Smiles* We've moved onto the casual flirting back and forth stage.

It's amazing what a short period of time can do.

[lilacfairy]

I'm happy for you! All the best!

[Harpred]

[quote=lilacfairy;3872556]I know it's hard, even though I consider myself one of the lucky ones. But even I have not always been like this. I used to be shy and thought I was ugly and I still know I'm not model material. But my bf loves me whether I have a crooked nose or not.

Originally Posted by lilacfairy

Yes, I also know that being rejected is tough, but take my flatmate for example, she's not even trying. Just because she's a bit overweight and quite inexperienced for her age, I feel she has given up! At 24! Should I tell her "well, you're right, your chances to meet mr. right are too low to bother."??? No, of course not, I try to give her confidence in herself and encourage her to go out more. Maybe her chances are low (although I don't believe they are), but if you don't go out there your chances are 0. and low is better than nil.

thats funny how you patronize your friend and contradict yourself every 2nd sentence, but seeing as you are a girl we should let that slide. that aside, your flatmate isn't that screwed unless she wants to **** a model. Maybe guys have to hire escorts or go to whorehouses, all a fat chick has to do is go to a club, rofl. oh and you're in the UK, even better

Originally Posted by lilacfairy

now I'm not encouraging her or you to go hunting for possible partners, because that doesn't work too well I believe. But just being out there and meeting people increases your chances by far.

LOL. plain retarded

[D-Himself]

Originally Posted by Harpred

LOL. plain retarded

huh? whats wrong with that?

[Harpred]

Originally Posted by D-Himself

huh? whats wrong with that?

because the only difference between hunting or meeting people is that one has a negative association and the other one does, or that guys hunt and girls meet people, or that ugly people hunt and good looking people meet people. more bullshit wordplay.

[Bubble Wrap]

^ i think she just means looking for people in normal situations
not places like clubs and bars where a lot of a-holes hang out

you think that her post implies that men or ugly people are stalkers/tools, which i think your reading into to deeply, because its not the case knowing where she is coming from

its as if you act as though every post of positive affirmation is some sort of backhanded personal insult to you.

[Aldaris]

I haven't posted here in awhile, so I figured I would give you all an update on how I've been doing. As of recent, I've found much more enjoyment in life. I've been more secure with my physical appearance (thats the big change), but again, I'm having relationship problems. As far as my general life goes, I know what I have to do in-order to accomplish my goals. Although some seem far-fetched (I'm going to Italy in the summer, rather than college, to play in their basketball league), I'm content with what I have to do in-order to succeed. As far as my relationship goes, it's a very complicated situation -- actually, it's rather simple, but I'm making it much, much more complicated than it has to be.

[lilacfairy]

Italy! Great! going abroad always has a big impact on your experiences and your personality. enjoy yourself there. and congrats on the basketball playing part!

[DJ Stev]

Originally Posted by lilacfairy

Italy! Great! going abroad always has a big impact on your experiences and your personality.

second this. i learned a shit load about myself when i was in europe this summer.

my advice put ur relationship on hold so u can just enjoy urself in italy. theres no pressure of being in relationships while ur over there. it may help u to get ur self esteem and confidence up. have fun

[Firebug]

Yeah I tend to learn a lot about myself when I am on trips, the further away the better.

Actually, that is one of the reasons I want to move across the country for awhile. Just to see how I would be impacted. Having only myself to rely on, and all the news adventures.

Yeah, definitely stick with playing basketball in Italy.