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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 02:34 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugue
The universe was compacted into such a small point that all the relationships between matter and energy became so drastic that all the informational content was wiped out and there is no way to tell precisely what existed before then.
Yeah i agree with that the big bang wiped out all evidence of what was before that time, but i don't see why time would have been any different before the bang.
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 03:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystify
<snip> ...I've often spent hours sitting in a room doing nothing but think over any possibility of a reason for existence and I'm sure at least 50% of you have too. I've got an open mind and would like to hear other people's views on the issue. So, post away!
Mystify ... 2 cents, ok.

Next time you are in that room,

write down the names of all the people that you can think of that in some ways you really admire, famous or otherwise.

what I think you may find is that the list has one common factor, which is that they all "made a difference"

and that the world we all now live in would be poorer if they had not "made that difference"

perhaps it is not the answer you are looking for
but if at the end of your life,
people remember that you, simply by being here
"made a difference"

it may be a good enough reason for your existence.

It is for me ...just my 2 cents, ok

*EDIT*
(Added)
and maybe before you leave the room, think what it would be like to reach the end of your life, not having made any difference at all.
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Last edited by OTTI : Sep 10th, 2006 at 03:42 PM.
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 03:40 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTTI
perhaps it is not the answer you are looking for
but if at the end of your life,
people remember that you, simply by being here
"made a difference"

it may be a good enough reason for your existence.
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 04:00 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustwave
Yeah i agree with that the big bang wiped out all evidence of what was before that time, but i don't see why time would have been any different before the bang.
Come to think of it, I don't see why either. Time didn't really slow to a halt at the beginning of time, it just slowed to a halt relative to how we would observe it now. If it were possible to experience time at the beginning of the universe, it would still seem to be passing at a normal rate.

Relevant article: http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/que...php?number=580

Couple of cool things I found while surfing around:

1. Apparently if you're inside a blackhole, you could see into both the past and the future simultaneously. Don't know if this is true or not.

2. Something I've known for a while, but it's cool to think about. Photons travel at the speed of light and therefore experience infinite time dilation. In other words, they experience no passage of time at all, so they exist at all points on their path at once. Check Alice in Quantumland.
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 04:23 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Fugue and Dustwave ...

I suspect I may be about to send all three of us hurtling into the Black Hole of the Science Thread, at least a zillion light years from the original question posed on this Thread, but to follow where you are going, have a look at this link:

http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/ke...pers/bell.html
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 05:22 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Oh yeah! I remember reading about something like that when I was interested in this stuff a few years ago. Eventually I just got really frustrated and bored though because it just led me to a bunch of questions which no one seemed to have the answer to. It's fun to re-learn it all over again though.

I always wondered why you couldn't just use a long and extremely taught rope to comminicate faster than the speed of light?
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 07:05 PM   #27 (permalink)
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This man had been dead for 3 days, and in the mourge some dude opened his stomach up and he came back 2 life. He was an athiest b4 his expiereince.


"The first thing I remember about my NDE is that I discovered myself in a realm of total darkness. I had no physical pain, I was still somehow aware of my existence as George, and all about me there was darkness, utter and complete darkness - the greatest darkness ever, darker than any dark, blacker than any black. This was what surrounded me and pressed upon me. I was horrified. I wasn't prepared for this at all. I was shocked to find that I still existed, but I didn't know where I was. The one thought that kept rolling through my mind was, "How can I be when I'm not?" That is what troubled me.

Slowly I got a grip on myself and began to think about what had happened, what was going on. But nothing refreshing or relaxing came to me. Why am I in this darkness? What am I to do? Then I remembered Descartes' famous line: "I think, therefore I am." And that took a huge burden off me, for it was then I knew for certain I was still alive, although obviously in a very different dimension. Then I thought, If I am, why shouldn't I be positive? That is what came to me. I am George and I'm in darkness, but I know I am. I am what I am. I must not be negative.

Then I thought, How can I define what is positive in darkness? Well, positive is light. Then, suddenly, I was in light; bright white, shiny and strong; a very bright light. I was like the flash of a camera, but not flickering - that bright. Constant brightness. At first I found the brilliance of the light painful, I couldn't look directly at it. But little by little I began to relax. I began to feel warm, comforted, and everything suddenly seemed fine.

The next thing that happened was that I saw all these molecules flying around, atoms, protons, neutrons, just flying everywhere. On the one hand, it was totally chaotic, yet what brought me such great joy was that this chaos also had its own symmetry. This symmetry was beautiful and unified and whole, and it flooded me with tremendous joy. I saw the universal form of life and nature laid out before my eyes. It was at this point that any concern I had for my body just slipped away, because it was clear to me that I didn't need it anymore, that it was actually a limitation.

Everything in this experience merged together, so it is difficult for me to put an exact sequence to events. Time as I had known it came to a halt; past, present, and future were somehow fused together for me in the timeless unity of life.

At some point I underwent what has been called the life-review process, for I saw my life from beginning to end all at once. I participated in the real life dramas of my life, almost like a holographic image of my life going on before me - no sense of past, present, or future, just now and the reality of my life. It wasn't as though it started with birth and ran along to my life at the University of Moscow. It all appeared at once. There I was. This was my life. I didn't experience any sense of guilt or remorse for things I'd done. I didn't feel one way or another about my failures, faults, or achievements. All I felt was my life for what it is. And I was content with that. I accepted my life for what it is.

During this time the light just radiated a sense of peace and joy to me. It was very positive. I was so happy to be in the light. And I understood what the light meant. I learned that all the physical rules for human life were nothing when compared to this unitive reality. I also came to see that a black hole is only another part of that infinity which is light.

I came to see that reality is everywhere. That it is not simply the earthly life but the infinite life. Everything is not only connected together, everything is also one. So I felt a wholeness with the light, a sense that all is right with me and the universe.

I could be anywhere instantly, really there. I tried to communicate with the people I saw. Some sensed my presence, but no one did anything about it. I felt it necessary to learn about the Bible and philosophy. You want, you receive. Think and it comes to you. So I participated, I went back and lived in the minds of Jesus and his disciples. I heard their conversations, experienced eating, passing wine, smells, tastes - yet I had no body. I was pure consciousness. If I didn't understand what was happening, an explanation would come. But no teacher spoke. I explored the Roman Empire, Babylon, the times of Noah and Abraham. Any era you can name, I went there.

So there I was, flooded with all these good things and this wonderful experience, when someone begins to cut into my stomach. Can you imagine? What had happened was that I was taken to the morgue. I was pronounced dead and left there for three days. An investigation into the cause of my death was set up, so they sent someone out to do an autopsy on me. As they began to cut into my stomach, I felt as though some great power took hold of my neck and pushed me down. And it was so powerful that I opened my eyes and had this huge sense of pain. My body was cold and I began to shiver. They immediately stopped the autopsy and took me to the hospital, where I remained for the following nine months, most of which I spent under a respirator.

Slowly I regained my health. But I would never be the same again, because all I wanted to do for the rest of my life was study wisdom. This new interest led me to attend the University of Georgia, where I took my second Ph.D., in the psychology of religion. Then I became a priest in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Eventually, in 1989, we came to America, and I am now working as an associate pastor at the First United Methodist Church in Nederland, Texas.

Many people have asked me what I believe in, how my NDE changed my life. All I can say is that I now believe in the God of the universe. Unlike many other people, however, I have never called God the light, because God is beyond our comprehension. God, I believe, is even more than the light, because God is also darkness. God is everything that exists, everything - and that is beyond our ability to comprehend at all. So I don't believe in the God of the Jews, or the Christians, or the Hindus, or in any one religion's idea of what God is or is not. It is all the same God, and that God showed me that the universe in which we live is a beautiful and marvelous mystery that is connected together forever and for always.

Anyone who has had such an experience of God, who has felt such a profound sense of connection with reality, knows that there is only one truly significant work to do in life, and that is love; to love nature, to love people, to love animals, to love creation itself, just because it is. To serve God's creation with a warm and loving hand of generosity and compassion - that is the only meaningful existence.

Many people turn to those who have had NDEs because they sense we have the answers. But I know this is not true, at least not entirely. None of us will fully fathom the great truths of life until we finally unite with eternity at death. But occasionally we get glimpses of the answer here on earth, and that alone is enough for me. I love to ask questions and to seek answers, but I know in the end I must live the questions and the answers. But that is okay, isn't it? So long as we love, love with all our heart and passion, it doesn't matter, does it? Perhaps the best way for me to convey what I am trying to say is to share with you something the poet Rilke once wrote in a letter to a friend. I saw this letter, the original handwritten letter, in the library at Dresden University in Germany. (He quotes from memory, as follows

"Be patient with all that is unresolved in your heart. And try to love the questions themselves. Do not seek for the answers that cannot be given. For you wouldn't be able to live with them. And the point is to live everything, live the questions now, and perhaps without knowing it, you will live along some day into the answers."


I place my faith in that. Live the questions, and the universe will open up its eyes to you.
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 07:12 PM   #28 (permalink)
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The Supernatural and Spiritual Aspects

of Light


(1)
Light was pervasive at the Big Bang and is predicted at the Universe's demise (alpha and omega).



(2)
All matter is ultimately reducible to electromagnetic radiation (which includes light).



(3)
Time ceases to exist at light speed.


(4)
The energy of light is infinite.



(5)
Physicists reveal experiments that show that light particles communicate!



(6)
Light is the loving entity that welcomes the dying in near-death experiences.



(7)
The Bible and the world's other major religious texts refer to God in terms of light.



(8)
The human race is very special - it is human observation that transforms light waves to light particles (i.e., how we experience reality).



(9)
The second law of thermodynamics (entropy) dictates that an infinite amount of organization (hence, design) existed in the singularity of the Big Bang. This book (nondenominational) argues that these comparisons to God are not just serendipitous.
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 07:34 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I dont know about you guys, but i believe that theres something out there...There has to be, In this universe we can only understand the truth within it, but not the truth that goes beyond it. If there are infinite bounderies beyond the universe than I believe there is a possible realm where we all can go or just us and feel, feelings that in the human body would seem scary, but without it would seem perfect and make sense.
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 08:03 PM   #30 (permalink)
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"One particular misconception is that it means we don't dwell in heaven between reincarnations or that we immediately reincarnate after death. Near-death experiences prove this misconception to be just that - a misconception. This is because time as we know it does not exist in the spirit world. A person can literally spend an "eternity" in the spirit realms, if they wish to do so, and have the freedom to decide if they want to reincarnate or not. The ultimate goal of reincarnation is to learn enough lessons from earth lives that reincarnation is no longer necessary."
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 08:07 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Dutta
This man had been dead for 3 days, and in the mourge some dude opened his stomach up and he came back 2 life. He was an athiest b4 his expiereince.

<snip>

I place my faith in that. Live the questions, and the universe will open up its eyes to you.
When I read that description of the near death experience, the cynic inside me immediately concluded that it is a work of fiction - religious propoganda dressed up as an account of a personal experience. Do you have a link to the original source of that story?

Also, do you have anything to back up the statements in your other post? It too looks like religious propoganda to me.
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 08:13 PM   #32 (permalink)
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http://www.near-death.com/
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 08:32 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Dutta
Thanks.

I had a quick look (I'm at work now) and I personally wouldn't believe anything I read on a site like that. They don't provide any evidence for their claims. There are alternative explanations for the phenomenon known as a "near death experience".

Click here and enter "near death experience" in the search box (use the quotes)
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 08:45 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugue
1. Apparently if you're inside a blackhole, you could see into both the past and the future simultaneously. Don't know if this is true or not.
Well my knowledge of blackholes is that they are basicly incredibly strong fields of gravity, pulling so hard that even light is pulled back in (hence it's darkness). Also meaning, at the moment you get close enough to see it you have no chance of surviving, as you have to be a considerable distance into it's forcefield to get to the point where you can see the light. Also meaning you are just seconds away from dying, as you will be smacked into the matter in the centre of the (at-that-point-not-anymore-)black hole at such high speed that your body will probably just evaporate instantly. I don't know, but i'd say you can't see much of the future nor the past at that moment, as you'll be, hehe, dead. If you weren't dead even before actually hitting the surface.
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 08:56 PM   #35 (permalink)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghettification
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 09:04 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugue
yeah that's pretty unpleasant i think
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 10:36 PM   #37 (permalink)
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i have an theory about life and is this:

there is not purpose, we exist and dont exist at same time, how? the cuestion is not how or why, the answer is why not.

if there is something that can happen will happen some day, the life is one of these things that had hapenned in the universe, life is possible and we are alive just because it was possible so we dont need to ask why , the answer as i said before is why not.

but the origin of our creation is not in the "life", we are made of universe events and possibilities, the life wouldn exist without an universe, and is this universe that contains everything we are and we can do, the only limit we have, this universe also contains other stuffs like energy, mass, and other kinds of material and properties that are just as important as the intelligent life is, the point is that our origin is not in the life, is in the universe, so the real cuestion about why we are here and why we are alive is why the universe was created, there is other universes out there?, who or what create them?



but the real answer is soo somplex that we cant understand it yet, our fisical mind has limitations, and with our current evolution state we cant understand why or how the universe was created.

follow your instincts, do what you have to do, thats how it had to be.
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 11:19 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Dutta
In this universe we can only understand the truth within it, but not the truth that goes beyond it.
I find this statement to be false. With time we will gain more knowledge about this universe and the world around us, eventualy we will evolve into smarter and more complex species that will be able to understand and use this imformation. Millions of years from now nuclear physics may be a grade school subject. Of course Homo Sapiens will be extinct by then.
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Unread Sep 10th, 2006, 11:24 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Dutta
rule number one never believe anything you read online.
rule number two never believe anything untill you can experience it yourself.
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Unread Sep 11th, 2006, 05:26 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Fague, you seem extremely cluey in the scientific area, what d'you s'ppose happens to a person after death? Does anybody know if any scientific discoveries have been made about an "afterlife"?

And if the big bang was indeed, the "beginning of time" would it be likely for time to come to an end, or take a long rest. If the big bang wiped out all evidence of time before it's happening, perhaps there were civilizations before us that had finally achieved an "ultimate goal", and it was time for us to start all over..

I guess my open imagination will never be quite satisfied, the possibilities are endless and until hard fact is thrown in my face I'll have to keep dreaming. Perhaps it's time to start a novel...
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