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Unread Oct 9th, 2009, 05:27 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I don't agree with that (well, I do in part). A few centuries ago, people got stoned to death, thought spitting on a wound would heal it, and burned witches at the stake. We've come a long way since then, and continue to. Remember, the US just got a black president. If that isn't progress, then I don't know what is.

As for language, I don't agree with that either - language evolves; get used to it. 100 years ago people didn't speak like we do. People object to new dictionary definitions every year, and they always have. People don't like change.

There is a devolution in scientific thinking, which is worrying. 40% of american's think man was made in God's image within the last 10,000 years - and that they walked with dinosaurs. That's a pretty worrying statistic. It's increasing as well, which is the real concern.

People trust science until it encroaches on their religious beliefs, and then suddenly it's an opinion instead of conjecture.

I guess it's a mixture of misinformation and lack of education - or moreover, misinformation presented as education.
On that level, yes we have come a long way but if you think about a more recent time frame. It seems like people were more intelligent 15 years ago than they are now. The educational system has declined. People these days don't parent their kids right. I see it all the time where as back in the 50s and 60s they did. It seems like public education was better back in the 50s and 60s. I wasn't alive but according to what people have said, that was true.

As for language, I have no problem with language changing but it seems that the misuse of the English language has increased on a large scale. I'm sorry but "We ain't got no" is not acceptable to me. "We don't have" sounds much more proper. "Conversate" is another one I don't like that a lot of people use. The proper word is "Converse". Ebonics is being taught in schools and Ebonics came from a dialect on how poor uneducated people talked because they weren't taught the correct way on how to speak because they didn't get a proper education. Because people didn't get a proper education, instead of society trying to teach them how to properly speak, society does the opposite and teach everyone how to speak improperly and they have given it a label called Ebonics.

If you go on youtube and you read a lot of comments that people write on there, it blows your mind and you question to yourself "Are these people for real"? They can't spell correctly. They don't type correctly. Some of them, you wonder if they know how to talk because you can't understand what they are saying and I'm not talking about foreigners who use a translator. That I can understand but these are American teenagers and I feel sorry for them that they are unable to express themselves in an intelligent manner. When my generation were teenagers, we were taught in school how to speak correctly, how to type correctly and I went to a poor public school.

Ignorance is also on an up rise. When I go grocery shopping, I just want to slap almost everyone in the store in the head. I didn't feel that way back in 93. People were much better back in the 80s and 90s. People these days just stop their cart in the middle of the isle and stare into space. They have no consideration for other people that want to walk down the isle with their cart and get what they need. These people that stare into space in the middle of the isle don't even stop to think how easy it is to just simply move to the side so others can get around them. They either don't think or they don't care and ignorance is just as bad as stupidity. Both of them hold us back from evolving. If we are to truly evolve, then we need to do it within ourselves.
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Unread Oct 9th, 2009, 06:03 PM   #62 (permalink)
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i totally agree with your points DG

and OMG don't even get me started on the "ignorance" subject, i could type my fingers blue
unbelievable how inconsiderate of others people have become
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Unread Oct 9th, 2009, 06:49 PM   #63 (permalink)
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some girl today told me she saw people landing on the moon on the news this morning. of course she was talking about nasa crashing the probes into the lunar surface for water discovery, but i mean cmon if ur gonna watch the story on the television at least comprehend it. crashing space probes isnt even close to sending ppl on the moon.
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Unread Oct 10th, 2009, 12:17 AM   #64 (permalink)
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We are not involving as a whole. I believe that people living in another part of the world have the potential to evolve into an entirely different race just because we take different approach to life.
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Unread Oct 10th, 2009, 05:05 AM   #65 (permalink)
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i totally agree with your points DG

and OMG don't even get me started on the "ignorance" subject, i could type my fingers blue
unbelievable how inconsiderate of others people have become
Believe me t4e, my post was much longer by 5 paragraphs but I knew that people wouldn't want to read that much on my gripes.
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some girl today told me she saw people landing on the moon on the news this morning. of course she was talking about nasa crashing the probes into the lunar surface for water discovery, but i mean cmon if ur gonna watch the story on the television at least comprehend it. crashing space probes isnt even close to sending ppl on the moon.
Which proves my point exactly!!!
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We are not involving as a whole. I believe that people living in another part of the world have the potential to evolve into an entirely different race just because we take different approach to life.
True!!! I do believe that in certain parts of the world, self evolution is taught to the youth but not in the developed countries because they are too concerned about money, power, greed and selfishness.
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Unread Oct 10th, 2009, 10:33 AM   #66 (permalink)
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If you go on youtube and you read a lot of comments that people write on there, it blows your mind and you question to yourself "Are these people for real"? They can't spell correctly. They don't type correctly. Some of them, you wonder if they know how to talk because you can't understand what they are saying and I'm not talking about foreigners who use a translator. That I can understand but these are American teenagers and I feel sorry for them that they are unable to express themselves in an intelligent manner. When my generation were teenagers, we were taught in school how to speak correctly, how to type correctly and I went to a poor public school.
I totally know what you mean. However, these "idiots" - where were they in 93? did they exist? Probably yes, but we didn't have a platform to notice them back then. Youtube didn't exist for them to post and show their shortcomings to the entire world.

I think the internet (one of the most interesting parts of it) is that it's highlighted these issues and brought them to people's attention. Which I think is a good thing - it's showed just how many people lack a decent education, can't spell, and don't seem to be interested in learning how to spell and communicate properly with each other.

I see the way these things have been highlighted as a good thing, as it's now obvious just how bad things really are.

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Ignorance is also on an up rise. When I go grocery shopping, I just want to slap almost everyone in the store in the head. I didn't feel that way back in 93. People were much better back in the 80s and 90s. People these days just stop their cart in the middle of the isle and stare into space. They have no consideration for other people that want to walk down the isle with their cart and get what they need. These people that stare into space in the middle of the isle don't even stop to think how easy it is to just simply move to the side so others can get around them. They either don't think or they don't care and ignorance is just as bad as stupidity. Both of them hold us back from evolving. If we are to truly evolve, then we need to do it within ourselves.
I do agree in parts - but I also think that maybe you care more than you did in 93?

Back then - I didn't give a f**k. I was too busy getting f**ked up and being a miscreant.

These days, I watch the news, care about current events - I'm generally more responsible. Back then, I wasn't - so I think a lot of it is more to do with me noticing more, and caring more.

I'm not disagreeing with you - just trying to create a bit of a balance and objectivity
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Unread Oct 10th, 2009, 10:46 AM   #67 (permalink)
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We are not involving as a whole. I believe that people living in another part of the world have the potential to evolve into an entirely different race just because we take different approach to life.
If you look at a cow - a cow in the wild doesn't have huge udders and create milk all year round; we've modified them genetically - not through genetic modification directly - by using artificial selection (as appose to natural selelection). In the wild, these cows wouldn't survive very well - their huge udders would be a hindrance - whereas we've let the cows with the biggest udders procreate, and not allowed the ones with smaller udders pro-create. This is so we get cows with massive udders that can be milked all year round (not just when they're pregnant). Essentially, we've created generic modification through artificial selection. We choose which cows get to procreate, and which don't (ones with huge milking udders).

In society, unfortunately, we can't control who procreates and who doesn't!

Technically, we COULD do the same as the thing with cows. If we only let women with big breast have babies, and stopped women with small breasts having babies - within 10 or so generations, all women would have huge tits

I'm not suggesting that at all - it's just an example.

Unfortunately, lack of decent sex education is indirectly creating some form of artificial selection, as DG has highlighted in his schoolboy becomes father post - "uneducated youths" seem to procreate freely and without "knowing" what they're doing is stupid and wrong - and subsequently they create more "uneducated youths" who continue to procreate freely and irresponsibly. Becuase they are so young, even if they did have the best intentions, they're not really fit to bring up a child properly and their children are not going to know any better, and probably do what their parents did (procreate freely).

It's a vicious cycle - we've all seen the idiot women recently who had octuplets - unfortunately, she isn't a rocket scientist, she's on welfare. Therefore these 8 babies are not going to get einstein's gene's - they're going to get idiot-women-who-wants-8-babies-on-welfare genes.

In the wild, these teenage mums wouldn't be able to protect their young, and they'd all probably die (natural selection at work). But now, natural selection doesn't exist with humans (at least not in the western world). Instead we have artificial selection - essentially we save everyone, even the weak and stupid.

I'm not saying we shouldn't - just stating a point
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Unread Oct 10th, 2009, 07:32 PM   #68 (permalink)
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I'm not disagreeing with you - just trying to create a bit of a balance and objectivity
No it's cool, you are right. That's probably what it is or how it seems. It could be my awareness for everything around me where as back then I wasn't so acute to these things.
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Unread Oct 11th, 2009, 01:10 AM   #69 (permalink)
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I'm not a scientist either, but didn't we hit a population of 6 billion people in the late 90's? The rates are showing we will be at 7 billion sometime in 2012. I'd say give maybe until 2036 before we hit 10 billion people. We are starting to grow far exponentially. It's not out of the question that in the next 200 years we will be growing at over a billion people in less than a year.

Colonizing probably really is our next evolutionary step.

according to some online calculators and the US beaureu it looks like itd be at the very start of December 2012 or very end of November 2012.

interesting hehe, if you think the mayan calendar stuff hehe.

anyways, i have no idea what we'll evolve into. To me it seems like a lot of the things you guys are talking about are social changes/phenomenon.

As the rich get richer, The Poor Have More Children.
I do agree with you guys though, i think with a problem like this it might eventually lead to the dumbing down of the world (especially if all this financial stuff doesn't stop), but yet a change in social structure could change this. (easier said than done, almost like everything is).

when you talk about on what we'll evolve into i think more physically, appearance wise, instead of intelligently.

Its funny how people think people way before us were dumb, when they actually weren't. Look at the Greeks, yes they believed in all those gods, but they were geniuses too. They actually made a computer back then. The people in pst times are equally as smart as us if not smarter, it's just now we have more resources and have advanced a lot more. Think about it, if it wasn't for the people in the past, we wouldn't even be able to have the imagination to think of things that we are in this thread.

I find it funny too how some people can hear something they like from someone giving a speech on some topic, lets say science. But when they find out the person believes in ID, they then question the person, when they wouldn't have if the person didn't believe in ID, or if they didn't know they believed in ID. I haven't heard it the other way around yet, where someone discredits what someone has said because they believe in evolution (im sure someone has though, i personally haven't heard it yet though) but either way both are stupid to do, and too many people are doing it. I find this harmful too. This can go with Ignorance that DG brought up.

I know a lot of people blame religion for many things, but both science and religion can be blamed. Not the things themselves, but the ignorant people. Science and Religion can't and shouldn't go hand in hand but people try to do so, or try to say ones better than the other, which neither are or even should be compared in any way.

I agree with a lot of what you said DG and Digitalist, especially with the lack of education about sex and such, its prob more apparent here in America, than in Europe (from what ive been told). But with people, more likely teens, having higher rates of pregnancy, but not having the resources, is just a horrible thing, because its sad for the baby because they most likely won't grow up and have good oppurtunites. I would mention abortion but i think there's pros and cons to it, and the morality of it depends on many different situations but i don't think it plays into evolving unless it gets to a point where people have sex freely, but then get abortions and keep having sex and keep getting abortions (then i think thatll effect things).

and about resources. I remember in my Sociology class, some priest came up with the idea that Food grows numerically (1,2,3,4), while Humans grow exponentially (1,2,4,16).

I think i digressed though and much of this probably is more social than it has to do with evolving physically hehe.
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Unread Oct 11th, 2009, 06:55 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I think i digressed though and much of this probably is more social than it has to do with evolving physically hehe.
Indeed, this thread Digressed away from evolution and into bitchin about sociological dilemmas.
De-evolution, I'd say.

And because I can't get anyone to bite;
Here's more proof of the evolutional theory I'm trying to promote;
A redefinition of Genesis.
... To say that the Deity of this Subject created Man in order to evolve into the image of itself.

/I love peppering my scientific debate with religious reference.
//Because Science thinks the last 5 thousands years of human thought offers it nothing.
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Unread Oct 11th, 2009, 09:30 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Indeed, this thread Digressed away from evolution and into bitchin about sociological dilemmas.
De-evolution, I'd say.

And because I can't get anyone to bite;
Here's more proof of the evolutional theory I'm trying to promote;
A redefinition of Genesis.
... To say that the Deity of this Subject created Man in order to evolve into the image of itself.

/I love peppering my scientific debate with religious reference.
//Because Science thinks the last 5 thousands years of human thought offers it nothing.
thats a cool article.

I consider my self to be a practicing christian luthern, but im open to many things, and after knowing much of history, i can see how a lot of the bible probably changed a lot through time. I still think a lot of it is the same, but there probably were some changes in minor things. But also the translations could have been done incorrectly, especially in genesis and thus could have changed a crap load then.

Just like the article said, that one verb bara could change a whole entire notion of how the earth was created according to the bible.

I heard another one that some biblical scholars use too. Its the 7 day one, how yes it is 7 days, but they could have 7 god days. From this they say evolution could have occurred, because god days could be like equivalent to 10,000 years or something.
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Unread Oct 11th, 2009, 11:53 PM   #72 (permalink)
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thats a cool article.

I consider my self to be a practicing christian luthern, but im open to many things, and after knowing much of history, i can see how a lot of the bible probably changed a lot through time. I still think a lot of it is the same, but there probably were some changes in minor things. But also the translations could have been done incorrectly, especially in genesis and thus could have changed a crap load then.

Just like the article said, that one verb bara could change a whole entire notion of how the earth was created according to the bible.

I heard another one that some biblical scholars use too. Its the 7 day one, how yes it is 7 days, but they could have 7 god days. From this they say evolution could have occurred, because god days could be like equivalent to 10,000 years or something.
From what I gathered, the bible was written metaphorically. A lot of people read the bible and perceive it literally. They aren't thinking outside the box if you will.

excercyst, a very interesting read, however it can be viewed and analyzed in many different ways!!!
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Unread Oct 12th, 2009, 01:39 PM   #73 (permalink)
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From my view, the bible is both metaphorical and physical.

"Everything with physical form had a spiritual form" comes to mind when reading that article. Thanks for stirring things up ,excercyst. Keepin' our minds ticking
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Unread Oct 12th, 2009, 04:41 PM   #74 (permalink)
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I am not Religious at all.
Spiritual, definitely.
But not even kinda religious.

That being said, I still read parables as reflections of events and actions that we humans had no good descriptions for at the time they where written.
One step further, I read an indoctrinated use of the word God to be taken as Deity. Not a pantheistic, All encompassing God.
When you perceive references to a god as just a deity, much of our religious writing start to take different meaning.

For the Sake of argument; lets assume a deity did create man in the image of itself.
A missing link, so to speak.
And provided us with the knowledge to cloth and feed and shelter ourselves above and beyond the natural instincts of common life...
Agriculture, Architecture, Mathmatics, Sciences...
All being integral to maintaining the higher form.

Then I ask, what would we be evolving Into?
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Unread Oct 12th, 2009, 07:28 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Then I ask, what would we be evolving Into?
There is no definite answer to that as many answers could arise from that question itself. If one were to answer it as saying "a god" well what exactly is a god and how would you know?
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Unread Oct 12th, 2009, 11:06 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Most definitely to become gods. You'd probably understand what a god is if you can understand the supposed creator(s)

Now, for the sake of argument, let's suppose that the universe and the big bang did so just happen to have rolled the dice on the one to a gazillion chance of the universe forming the way it has. With the earth just so being at a sufficient distance and with sufficient elements for life. And the miniscule chance for the spark of life DID happen.

What then, would you say, are we evolving into?

I think such is a much harder question.
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Unread Oct 12th, 2009, 11:25 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Most definitely to become gods. You'd probably understand what a god is if you can understand the supposed creator(s
I understand my perspective of what God is but it may be different to each individual. Here's another spin, God just might be the universe. The universe is everywhere and nowhere at the same time, it's all knowing, it's within all of us, it's a part of us, we are a part of it, we are all connected to it, we are all a collective to it, it's created everything for those who believe in the big bang which I don't, it is infinite, it always will be, it can't be destroyed, it has no beginning and it has no end, it has no size and yet it has an infinite amount of size, it is also made up of many dimensions such as time which is also infinite that only we see as to having a beginning and an end to because our brains can not comprehend anything not having a beginning and an end. Food for thought and we can not disprove it. One more thing, when we die, we become a part of it, just not in physical form. The question is how will we evolve in our physical form?
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Unread Oct 13th, 2009, 12:27 AM   #78 (permalink)
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...
What then, would you say, are we evolving into?

I think such is a much harder question.
That's what I can't help but think,
I don't see how a chaos theory evolution has any probability for the creation any Intelligence.

That's like saying any chance of any life evolving has an equal and opposite chance that nothing would have ever evolved.
No life, nor the cosmos. An equal chance of nothing.
But that's not what happened.

What happened was the universe grew, just as it is.
There was a pattern; a fractal, a rotation, a double helix.
A Sentient Design.

So would evolution's goal (the intelligent design) be to grow back towards the singularity?
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Unread Oct 13th, 2009, 12:43 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Here's another spin, God just might be the universe..... The question is how will we evolve in our physical form?
Pantheism: God = the Universe. They are synonymous.
This particular brand of theology tends to enrage anti-theists.
I have fondness for it myself.

I don't think man will need to Physically evolve anymore.
We have come such an intellectual capacity that we can manipulate matter with our technology.

Soon the essence of our humanity will cease to be organic,
It will be electronic, Already much of our generations Intellect, communication and Memory's are largely digital.
Even Nearly all of Science, the information we use to define our reality, is only observable and verifiable through digitally aided tools...
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Unread Oct 13th, 2009, 12:56 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Pantheism: God = the Universe. They are synonymous.
This particular brand of theology tends to enrage anti-theists.
I have fondness for it myself.

I don't think man will need to Physically evolve anymore.
We have come such an intellectual capacity that we can manipulate matter with our technology.

Soon the essence of our humanity will cease to be organic,
It will be electronic, Already much of our generations Intellect, communication and Memory's are largely digital.
Even Nearly all of Science, the information we use to define our reality, is only observable and verifiable through digitally aided tools...
That thought has crossed my mind. Since we are made up of energy, digital aids will not be needed to aid us.
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