A career in Math and Sceince why not?

[Wildcatfball74]

Originally Posted by DJ_Serg

Just curious, what was your reason for talking them out of it?

Honestly, I'd try and talk my kids out of arts/business/law majors because they're dime a dozen. Engineering is where it is and where it's always been. It's interesting, prestigious, well-paid and gives a great sense of accomplishment and achievement. Best of all, if you know what you're doing you don't get treated like you're replaceable, because the truth is it is hard to replace a good engineer and next to impossible to replace a great one.

those sound like opinions, other than the well paid. You could say the same about Law Enforcement or probably most occupations. Also business and law majors i thought actually have a good job outlook, but i do agree arts majors don't (depending what they wanna do with their art major) have that great of an outlook.

I personally don't see anything interesting about engineering. Also the definition of well-paid varies. Someone could think 30k is well paid because they can live comfortable with that, while others think 60k+ would be well-paid.

I do see what your saying though, im just playing devils advocate hehe.

[shopawn]

Man, I hated math in school so bad! respect everyone that has a passion for it but I can't relate neither to math nore to physics or chemics...

[shahsxfx]

Well pay? $100K+ in 5 years.

[DJ_Serg]

Originally Posted by Wildcatfball74

those sound like opinions, other than the well paid. You could say the same about Law Enforcement or probably most occupations. Also business and law majors i thought actually have a good job outlook, but i do agree arts majors don't (depending what they wanna do with their art major) have that great of an outlook.

Well, of course it's an opinion. Just speaking from experience.

From what I've seen, business majors are the first to go when it hits the fan. Probably because there is plethora of these guys looking for jobs. I don't know what the local statistics are, but my school had about 300 business majors compared to 20/30 engineering and medical (each) at the graduation. And just from my work experience, I lost count of how many people come and go in our marketing department. They're like a pair of gloves. So, is there a great outlook? Well, maybe if you run your own business?

As far as law majors... you know, as long as you're not working up to be a lawyer. We've got enough lawyers for every single person in the states to hire one for personal use. The fact that you hear about these ridiculous law suits is enough of an indication that these guys have nothing to do. But, i guess i should have been more specific when i said 'law'. I think Law Enforcement is pretty cool. Lots of options there too. That CSI stuff is just crazy fun.

Originally Posted by Wildcatfball74

I personally don't see anything interesting about engineering.

I wouldn't believe that for a second. You mean to tell me that you use all this technology on the daily basis and not even once a thought popped in your head which was something along the lines of "Oh that's cool! I wonder how they did that?" I don't even know if that's humanely possible.

Every field of engineering has something interesting. It may not be the selling point of that profession and it may not be something obvious to a lay person, but there is always something interesting.

Originally Posted by Wildcatfball74

Also the definition of well-paid varies. Someone could think 30k is well paid because they can live comfortable with that, while others think 60k+ would be well-paid.

You're right. It's all relative. But........

Man, if you're a licensed engineer and you get paid 30K, you're either straight out of school (and even that's iffy), you're not very bright or you're just getting plain screwed and you're not too bright to realize it. Even my asscrack of a town starts you out with 50K if you're doing electrical engineering out of school. It's somewhere around 60K if you're doing mechanical. Software is about 40K-50K.

Originally Posted by shahsxfx

Well pay? $100K+ in 5 years.

Yes, it's a great pay in 5 years. Why don't you try moving out of NY where everything is 3 times more expensive, then come back and tell me about your awesome salary.

[marensman]

Originally Posted by DJ_Serg

Just curious, what was your reason for talking them out of it?

Honestly, I'd try and talk my kids out of arts/business/law majors because they're dime a dozen. Engineering is where it is and where it's always been. It's interesting, prestigious, well-paid and gives a great sense of accomplishment and achievement. Best of all, if you know what you're doing you don't get treated like you're replaceable, because the truth is it is hard to replace a good engineer and next to impossible to replace a great one.

you work very hard for little respect. but there are good sides of engineering also. I love to see a project I've worked on for months start-up and work properly (when it does work right, often needs last minute tweeking).there is more money in law, business or medicine than engineering. just because you graduated doesn't make one a good engineer, there is much to learn after school to get that recognition. the good thing about engineering studies tho is that it teaches you how to learn; you have to keep learning thru-out your career.

[shahsxfx]

you work very hard for little respect.

I hate to say it but the boy is right! But only here in the states. Every place else other than the US and Finland engineers actually carry a good bit of + rep.
And I've brought this up at the last meeting I was at in DC.
As well as the low pay.

But none of my bitching is going to change the world nor convince a bunch of slightly out of touch life long professors. But I'm working on it.
But quick trivia question.
As of today, what is the only prime time TV character who is an Engineer?

[Dustwave]

Originally Posted by shahsxfx

As of today, what is the only prime time TV character who is an Engineer?

Jeremy Clarkson?

[marensman]

there are lots who have played engineers such as Scottie on Star Trek; see this website.
but who is a real engineer on TV I don't know.

[Wildcatfball74]

Originally Posted by DJ_Serg

Well, of course it's an opinion. Just speaking from experience.

From what I've seen, business majors are the first to go when it hits the fan. Probably because there is plethora of these guys looking for jobs. I don't know what the local statistics are, but my school had about 300 business majors compared to 20/30 engineering and medical (each) at the graduation. And just from my work experience, I lost count of how many people come and go in our marketing department. They're like a pair of gloves. So, is there a great outlook? Well, maybe if you run your own business?

As far as law majors... you know, as long as you're not working up to be a lawyer. We've got enough lawyers for every single person in the states to hire one for personal use. The fact that you hear about these ridiculous law suits is enough of an indication that these guys have nothing to do. But, i guess i should have been more specific when i said 'law'. I think Law Enforcement is pretty cool. Lots of options there too. That CSI stuff is just crazy fun.



I wouldn't believe that for a second. You mean to tell me that you use all this technology on the daily basis and not even once a thought popped in your head which was something along the lines of "Oh that's cool! I wonder how they did that?" I don't even know if that's humanely possible.

Every field of engineering has something interesting. It may not be the selling point of that profession and it may not be something obvious to a lay person, but there is always something interesting.



You're right. It's all relative. But........

Man, if you're a licensed engineer and you get paid 30K, you're either straight out of school (and even that's iffy), you're not very bright or you're just getting plain screwed and you're not too bright to realize it. Even my asscrack of a town starts you out with 50K if you're doing electrical engineering out of school. It's somewhere around 60K if you're doing mechanical. Software is about 40K-50K.



Yes, it's a great pay in 5 years. Why don't you try moving out of NY where everything is 3 times more expensive, then come back and tell me about your awesome salary.

to shah if youre making 100k+, then i don't see anything to complain about, but if you are in NYC i guess they do pay a shit load more for things there hehe, so i guess its raltive.

Serg, i very rarely wonder how something works, it normally make sure i just know how to use it. But if it does break i do try to fix it myself which i normally do easily (so i guess you can same im a hypocrite now that i think about it hehe) But using the math and science to figure things out is not interesting to me. Maybe doing it once would be fun, but for a career, id go crazy. to me thatd be like working on a factory line, just boring.

good point about business people. I always assumed they get easy jobs though for financing jobs and such, but is that under a different major. all my friends majoring in business all say they have it set when they leave college (they can get a job instantly). Does a business major include being an accountant, finance advisor, broker, pretty much anyone that watches over the money in any company?

my bro is an electronic engineer and he works on cell phone towers for verizon. I think right out of college he was making 50K

I know if i go into the FBI or DEA or one of those gov agencies, i think i might start around high 30's or low 40's but after 3 years it goes up a lot, and it keeps going up every year i think.

[HudsonHawk]

Originally Posted by Wildcatfball74

Does a business major include being an accountant, finance advisor, broker, pretty much anyone that watches over the money in any company?

correct way to say this would be business majors because there are several that fall under this category.

Accounting
Finance
Administration & Management
Marketing
International Business

If your friends believe they have a sure job coming because they have a bba degree... they need to lay off the pipe.

[shahsxfx]

I'm sorry I should have been more specific via stating US TV.
But the longest running character on TV today who is an engineer.....Homer Simpson.
He's a safety engineer.

As for me, I make just shy of $100k. But it took me 7 years to get there.

[Wildcatfball74]

Originally Posted by HudsonHawk

correct way to say this would be business majors because there are several that fall under this category.

Accounting
Finance
Administration & Management
Marketing
International Business

If your friends believe they have a sure job coming because they have a bba degree... they need to lay off the pipe.

i think the places they work for had programs that they were in to help them get hired at that workplace. So i have a biased selection of people i've talked to.

[shahsxfx]

There are fewer and fewer "sure" jobs in the world.
Even if you have a MS in engineering you may not have a gig.
What matters now?
$$$$$ and respect.

[Firebug]

Also in this day in age, with all the economic garbage, one should never underestimate networking for any type of job.

[shahsxfx]

BINGO!
Start early and you'll do well.
But....engineers and scientists spend so much time doing mind numbing soul crushing home work that they never get a chance to go out.
And if they do there is a fleet of fat chicks with harpoons at the ready just waiting to pick them off one at a time.

[Legend]

Why become Engineer or Scientist today, when they can either send your job to India for 1/10th of the cost (even if quality is shit, they dont care as long as CEO bonus is up). That or they will just bring a guy from India on H1B for 1/5th of the cost and tell the public America does not have qualified engineers (CEO needs a new yacht, didnt you know?).

[marensman]

Originally Posted by Legend

Why become Engineer or Scientist today, when they can either send your job to India for 1/10th of the cost (even if quality is shit, they dont care as long as CEO bonus is up). That or they will just bring a guy from India on H1B for 1/5th of the cost and tell the public America does not have qualified engineers (CEO needs a new yacht, didnt you know?).

not that America does not have qualified engineers, people wouldn't buy that, but that there is a shortage of qualified engineers (that are willing to work for 1/5 the pay - did we mention paying for the corporate jet lease for the CEO?). 20-30 years ago the CEO was often an engineer now they're all bean counters who have no idea (or respect for) what the engineers that work for them do.

[Legend]

Originally Posted by marensman

not that America does not have qualified engineers, people wouldn't buy that, but that there is a shortage of qualified engineers (that are willing to work for 1/5 the pay - did we mention paying for the corporate jet lease for the CEO?). 20-30 years ago the CEO was often an engineer now they're all bean counters who have no idea (or respect for) what the engineers that work for them do.

+1.
When it all becomes about money, there are no values. People with values become extinct because they cannot survive in such a world.

[shahsxfx]

OK shot off your data to North Western University and guess what boys and...i think there were two girls.....you are average.
Looks like I have a heck of a job ahead of me. Thank god my official charter indicates getting this office up and running and producing some sort of + test results.
there is nothing there about actually getting kids to become engineers and scientists.
But if you wanted to know the two most discouraging issues related to getting kids interested in the fields of engineering and science.
1) $$$$$$
2) Lack of respect

[its-exit]

1) 24
2) Varried between A and B
3) Bachlors in Psychology...start going for PhD in Clinical Psych in about a year and a half.

4) Fell in love with the subject. Once I got into research methods science seemed to make even more sense. I love the logic of Statistics and probability theory (despite that i struggle with it) and how it can be applied to anything. The theory and logic behind the sciences is simply flawless...in that it allows for flaws. I love being on the cutting edge and discovering new knowledge that noone else knows. Things that change lives and society. Most importantly I love the applied aspect of problem solving. In the end it boils down to what do you find most interesting? For me its people. The science of people is vast and finding feature that appeals to you is the hardest part.... the abnormal is what I find most fascinating. Mostly because there is still plenty that can be learned or discovered.