Digitally Imported Homepage

Go Back   Digitally Imported Forums > Daily Life > Social Commentary
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread Feb 1st, 2008, 05:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
DI Extreme Addict
 
its-exit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami, FL -USA
Posts: 2,952
Send a message via AIM to its-exit
Default Cloning

I just saw on TV that they're acctually trying to bring back the dinosaurs like in Jurassic Park......

as if that wasn't enough, the FDA has already approved cloning of cattle and I heard that human organs are next....


I have a serious problem agreeing with humans being cloned.... what do you guys think?
__________________
“Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.” - Scott Adams

Last edited by its-exit : Feb 1st, 2008 at 07:33 PM.
its-exit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 1st, 2008, 06:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Forum Addict
 
wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: terra-opal*sub-5; zodiac
Posts: 624
Default

Check out the recent film, The Island.
__________________
kissing the origin of the world......
wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 1st, 2008, 07:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
DI Extreme Addict
 
its-exit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami, FL -USA
Posts: 2,952
Send a message via AIM to its-exit
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderer View Post
Check out the recent film, The Island.
already have...

I think that was one of the films that really made me realize how out of control cloning could get...
__________________
“Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.” - Scott Adams
its-exit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 1st, 2008, 07:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Forum Addict
 
Shai`tan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: /dev/null
Posts: 609
Default

Considering the possibility that we might be a genetic experiment of some alien civilization, I guess it shouldn't be such a big deal. But still a cloned person is a human being and as such it has its rights. Although cloning has the potential to improve medicine, it is still very cruel. Big dilemma here...
__________________
Like thunder from the sky, sworn to fight and die.
Shai`tan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 1st, 2008, 08:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Forum Addict
 
wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: terra-opal*sub-5; zodiac
Posts: 624
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai`tan View Post
Considering the possibility that we might be a genetic experiment of some alien civilization, I guess it shouldn't be such a big deal. But still a cloned person is a human being and as such it has its rights. Although cloning has the potential to improve medicine, it is still very cruel. Big dilemma here...
Arthur C. Clarke wrote a fine short entitled Reunion in which seemingly benign imperial alien intelligences return to earth to avail us of our genetic devolution....
__________________
kissing the origin of the world......
wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 1st, 2008, 11:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
DI Extreme Addict
 
its-exit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami, FL -USA
Posts: 2,952
Send a message via AIM to its-exit
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai`tan View Post
Considering the possibility that we might be a genetic experiment of some alien civilization, ...
The possibility exists but is unlikely.

I mean... we've found plenty of ancestors in our genetic heritage....


Besides.... It's the moral principle of cloning....

I mean... where do we stop?

Eventually we could be slaves to our technology (if we arn't already)....

Now we're going to start making copies of ourselves and other animals....

I think we're moving forward too fast and as a civilization we should probably just slow the hell down and think about what we're really doing here..

and that starts with discussion..
__________________
“Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.” - Scott Adams
its-exit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 1st, 2008, 11:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
DI Critical Mass
 
misan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mountain View, California
Posts: 26,977
Send a message via ICQ to misan Send a message via AIM to misan Send a message via MSN to misan Send a message via Yahoo to misan Send a message via Skype™ to misan
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderer View Post
Arthur C. Clarke wrote a fine short entitled Reunion in which seemingly benign imperial alien intelligences return to earth to avail us of our genetic devolution....
they will WHAT ?
misan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 2nd, 2008, 12:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
Cruising at 120BPM
 
HudsonHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 10,450
Send a message via AIM to HudsonHawk Send a message via MSN to HudsonHawk
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by its-exit View Post
I have a serious problem agreeing with humans being cloned.... what do you guys think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by its-exit View Post
Besides.... It's the moral principle of cloning....
When you want to start a discussion or a good debate don't just throw words around... what is it that you find immoral about cloning, what problems do you have with it. Are you against it or you're just no sure... Is it human cloning alone that you're concerned about? Are you against cloning animals for food as well? What about rare or extinct animals like dinosaurs. What about stem cell research and growing replacement organs?


Sometimes we are quick to judge and label things in black in white. This subject has many different areas that have to be looked at separately and all of them with their own pros and cons.
__________________
Fancy a ride on my Choo Choo Train?
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=5795CE27FA841CD7
HudsonHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 2nd, 2008, 10:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
DI Extreme Addict
 
its-exit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami, FL -USA
Posts: 2,952
Send a message via AIM to its-exit
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HudsonHawk View Post
When you want to start a discussion or a good debate don't just throw words around... what is it that you find immoral about cloning, what problems do you have with it. Are you against it or you're just no sure... Is it human cloning alone that you're concerned about? Are you against cloning animals for food as well? What about rare or extinct animals like dinosaurs. What about stem cell research and growing replacement organs?


Sometimes we are quick to judge and label things in black in white. This subject has many different areas that have to be looked at separately and all of them with their own pros and cons.
I'm not just throwing words around. I was asking to see what others thought before I gave me 2 cents, but since you're asking I'll go ahead and tell you.

My problem with cloning is that at what point is it immoral?

Have you seen the movie "The Island"????

If you had you might better understand where I'm coming from.

If we start cloning people to harvest their organs in case of an operation... how will those organs be any good if they're not used?

I mean... will a cloned heart be as good as an origional heart??? I doubt it! Because genetics only go so far....

So if we start cloning humans and we keep these clones alive for their organs.... isnt it immoral to kill a person in order to take their organs for the "origional" person????

I mean really think about how far out of control cloning could get.

Shit.. look at star wars.... they have an entire clone army.

I just think it's too much too fast.

As for animals... I think it's immoral too. I mean.... we're already treating other animals horribly (look at Cattle and chickens)..... is cloning them adding insult to injury?
__________________
“Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.” - Scott Adams
its-exit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 2nd, 2008, 01:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
Cruising at 120BPM
 
HudsonHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 10,450
Send a message via AIM to HudsonHawk Send a message via MSN to HudsonHawk
Default

I've seen the island, but I wasn't gonna bring Hollywood movie to this discussion. It's about cloning humans for the purpose of organ harvesting. Thats unnecessary and a waste of time and money because we should be able to grow organs separately. I think this is the key goal of the stem cell research. The line for organ transplants is growing much quicker than the donor list. And if we'll be able to replace organs without the need for donors, I think it's immoral to try and stop this kind of research. If we can give sight to the blind, hearts, lungs and kidney to the people that need them... why not?

Now I see your problem with cloning animals for food and it doesn't make me feel any easy but we(humans) stopped hunting a long time ago. It just doesn't make sense when you look at our numbers. So even if it makes us feel bad I think in the end we'll be forced to do it. Also there are more humane uses for cloned animals...
for example with cloned fish we can repopulate lakes, seas and rivers much faster then if we leave it to the nature.

Cloning extinct or rare animals is self explanatory, I think. I'm not even sure if you can even come up with a reason why we shouldn't...

So back to human cloning. It's gonna happen eventually. You can't stop progress. Which is why i think all steps should be taken now to make sure any research in this field remains under the public eye. Because if we're going to continue this campaign against it, there are many private investors that would like to see it happen.
Human cloning can give us alot of answers and a much better understanding of ourself and life in general.
__________________
Fancy a ride on my Choo Choo Train?
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=5795CE27FA841CD7
HudsonHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 2nd, 2008, 02:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
DI Extreme Addict
 
its-exit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami, FL -USA
Posts: 2,952
Send a message via AIM to its-exit
Default

I guess we'll see what happens. But I'm not convinced that cloning an organ is as simple as you make it sound.

Putting a new heart into a 70 year old man is bound to have a lot of complications..... there are a lot of things you're not really thinking about...

I agree that there are a lot of benefits to cloning... but the human population is already at a point where it's consuming more than it can sustain for very long.....

So if life expectancy and population continue to go up..... it's going to lead to world war III.....
__________________
“Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.” - Scott Adams
its-exit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 2nd, 2008, 02:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
Cruising at 120BPM
 
HudsonHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 10,450
Send a message via AIM to HudsonHawk Send a message via MSN to HudsonHawk
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by its-exit View Post
I guess we'll see what happens. But I'm not convinced that cloning an organ is as simple as you make it sound.
of course its not. It's alot of work and research that has to be done. Everything is achieved through trial and error.

As for ww3, it will happen before we'll be able to clone humans I think.
__________________
Fancy a ride on my Choo Choo Train?
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=5795CE27FA841CD7
HudsonHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 2nd, 2008, 03:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
Shoom
Channel Manager
 
gh0zt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ayahuasca Village
Posts: 19,899
Default

why does cloned meat/milk scare people as a health issue? its not like you put a chunk of beef in a Clone-Machine 5000 and out pops a new slab of meat.

it comes from an animal cloned then raised like any other animal.

itll have just as much steroid and antibiotic residue as your standard meats!
__________________
And at the onset of trance, the spirit of the creature enters the body of the dancer, enabling him to reach a transcendental state.
gh0zt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 2nd, 2008, 03:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
DI Extreme Addict
 
its-exit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami, FL -USA
Posts: 2,952
Send a message via AIM to its-exit
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HudsonHawk View Post
of course its not. It's alot of work and research that has to be done. Everything is achieved through trial and error.

As for ww3, it will happen before we'll be able to clone humans I think.
disagree...

we're already ABLE to clone humans...

Before we acctually do it is another story...
__________________
“Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.” - Scott Adams
its-exit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 2nd, 2008, 03:38 PM   #15 (permalink)
Cruising at 120BPM
 
HudsonHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 10,450
Send a message via AIM to HudsonHawk Send a message via MSN to HudsonHawk
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by its-exit View Post
disagree...

we're already ABLE to clone humans...

Before we acctually do it is another story...
well than somebody is already cloning humans then.
__________________
Fancy a ride on my Choo Choo Train?
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=5795CE27FA841CD7
HudsonHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 2nd, 2008, 03:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
DI Chronic Addict
 
Bubble Wrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Star Pyramid
Posts: 9,635
Default

eh, were going to evolve into robots eventually(literally not figuratively)
__________________
"Hasheesh helped a great deal, and once sent him to a part of space where form does not exist, but where glowing gases study the secrets of existence. And a violet-coloured gas told him that this part of space was outside what he had called infinity"
Bubble Wrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 2nd, 2008, 06:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Forum Addict
 
wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: terra-opal*sub-5; zodiac
Posts: 624
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by HudsonHawk View Post
Cloning extinct or rare animals is self explanatory, I think. I'm not even sure if you can even come up with a reason why we shouldn't...
I got a couple :


That would depend on how far back we go.....certain ecological niches will have been filled in over the course of mere centuries.

Even if scientists decide to clone rare species today (say a bird population of less than 20) that species will suffer from extreme genetic similarity (vulnerability). There is the likelihood they will never again be able to survive in the wild, essentially becoming fragile domesticated pets. Toys for the wealthy. Crowd drawers at zoos. Research subjects....

Would this be ethical? Is the risk worth it?

I would play the odds and say yes, because the future is unpredictable...
__________________
kissing the origin of the world......

Last edited by wanderer : Feb 2nd, 2008 at 07:11 PM.
wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 2nd, 2008, 08:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
DI Extreme Addict
 
its-exit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami, FL -USA
Posts: 2,952
Send a message via AIM to its-exit
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HudsonHawk View Post
well than somebody is already cloning humans then.
just cuz we're able to do something does not mean its already been done....

but it wouldnt surprise me if it has been
__________________
“Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.” - Scott Adams
its-exit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 3rd, 2008, 12:23 AM   #19 (permalink)
Junior Addict
 
sidjohn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 18
Send a message via ICQ to sidjohn1 Send a message via AIM to sidjohn1 Send a message via MSN to sidjohn1 Send a message via Yahoo to sidjohn1
Default

I'm a big fan of survivial of the fitest, there is a reason the extinct are extinct.
sidjohn1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Feb 3rd, 2008, 12:30 AM   #20 (permalink)
DI Addict, Sonic Fanatic
 
Trance88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Grand Rapids MI, USA
Posts: 7,136
Default

I'm ok with cloning especially for medical reasons. If it's even possible to bring back dinosaurs they better be only bring back the herbivores.
__________________
Trance addict since '03.
DI addict since '05.
Sonic fanatic since '95.
Trance88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright © 2010 Digitally Imported, Inc.