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Unread Feb 3rd, 2008, 11:23 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wanderer View Post
I got a couple :
Would this be ethical? Is the risk worth it?
Life in the zoo is better than extinction
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Unread Feb 3rd, 2008, 11:56 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Is life as a slave better than death?
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Unread Feb 3rd, 2008, 12:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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animals at the zoo aren't exactly slaves, more like prisoners... and thats better than death imo
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Unread Feb 3rd, 2008, 12:44 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Cloning should not be considered an option. Apart from being morally revolting, its just plain cheating. It doesnt advance anything. We need to overcome problems with raw technology and diversification, not churning out more of ourselves.
As for cloning humans to get spare parts, can we not fabricate and maintain certain organs in isolation yet?
If we're able to, or once we're able to, we could even develop custom organs for altogether diffrent purposes. For instance a biomechanical system to replace car engines, like loads of muscle tissue under the bonnet thats fed nutrients and oxygen by metal pumps and filtrations systems. If its only muscle tissue then special high-glucose fuel could be developed in place of normal blood. Lower emmisions, no strain on oil supplies, no risk of fire.
You'd have to sacrifice the internal combustion engine's purr for creepy squelching noises though...

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Originally Posted by sidjohn1 View Post
survivial of the fitest, there is a reason the extinct are extinct.
Thats true, even with the dinosaurs getting wiped out by a meteor. People say your argument falls down there but it doesnt. Its the dinosaurs fault they werent clever enough to design the forecasting and preservation systems to survive the meteor strike. Sounds stupid but its not, us humans are animals just the same as they are and yet we've evolved the intelligence to do exactly that. We've got telescopes and underground bunkers and the sense to preserve varieties of crops and plant species if a meteor strike were to happen.
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Unread Feb 3rd, 2008, 03:12 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Thirst View Post
As for cloning humans to get spare parts, can we not fabricate and maintain certain organs in isolation yet?
If we're able to, or once we're able to, we could even develop custom organs for altogether diffrent purposes. For instance a biomechanical system to replace car engines, like loads of muscle tissue under the bonnet thats fed nutrients and oxygen by metal pumps and filtrations systems. If its only muscle tissue then special high-glucose fuel could be developed in place of normal blood. Lower emmisions, no strain on oil supplies, no risk of fire.
Remember Lexx?
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Unread Feb 3rd, 2008, 04:33 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Although cloning has the potential to improve medicine, it is still very cruel.
How is cloning cruel? It's what's done with/to the cloned person afterwards that could be cruel. But i don't see how cloning in itself is cruel.
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Unread Feb 3rd, 2008, 06:49 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I think organ reproduction would be a good thing to do. I don't think cloning is! But then, it's almost given that when people would start producing specific organs, someone somewhere is going to be cloning humans. What's your life worth than if someone could make an identical copy of you. Someone could whack you and replace you with your clone lol. How is that good? In general, i don't think f0cking with nature and it's cycle of life isn't such a good idea. I also think all hell is going to break loose when human will be cloned. I'm talking about religion mostly. It's going to be very chaotic.
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Unread Feb 3rd, 2008, 09:59 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Cloning puts power in the hands of a species (mankind) what only nature should have the power to do. Evolution involves both the advancement of species AND the destruction of another weaker species. Extinction is a part of nature and man should not intrude. Also you begin with cloning extinct animals and the slippery slope turns into cloning humans and other wild possibilities. This power is better left untouched.
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Unread Feb 3rd, 2008, 10:36 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DasHnGasH View Post
Extinction is a part of nature and man should not intrude.
Man has been intruding for a long long time...........(wooly mammoths).........






.................In general regards to the extinction of species by mankind unrelated to this qoute:

Why is socially OK for some to only ever acknowledge our connection to the animal kingdom when it comes as an example of survival of the fittest?

Darwin was not a social darwinist.

Otherwise, in defense of humanities superiority, those of this mindsetdifferentiate:

Humans have a complex language, humans use tools, humans have the capacity for abstract thought, etc.....

It seems a rather convenient means to justify shortsightedness....stupidity.
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Unread Feb 4th, 2008, 08:48 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Remember Lexx?
Did they use organs as machines or something?
I vaguely remember the name, I think I've seen a bit of an episode. One of those cosy soft-lens/padded cell acoustics sci-fi dramas you see kicking about on channels like Sky Two in the early afternoon?
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Unread Feb 4th, 2008, 11:36 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Hmmm, I more reminded of the Sci-Fi series [TV] Space: Above and Beyond. (LOVED that show BTW)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space:_Above_and_Beyond

People were cloned ostensibly to help fight in the war against the AIs. Social prejudices did not allow the clones as many rights as 'real people'. This show actually explored a number of moral and ethical issues surrounding the cloning of humans.

http://www.globalchange.com/clonlink.htm
^this site has a number of links and "how to's" not sure to take it as a joke or get scared.

Another thing to think about, would cloning human organs stop those who illegally harvest and sell organs/body parts? http://www.yourlawyer.com/articles/read/11533

Which is a bigger crime?
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Unread Feb 4th, 2008, 12:49 PM   #32 (permalink)
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"Another thing to think about, would cloning human organs stop those who illegally harvest and sell organs/body parts?"

I think this is an interesting point. Another view of this idea would be could it open up a whole new area of the black market by increasing the number of organs and body parts available through clones.
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Unread Feb 4th, 2008, 01:15 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DasHnGasH View Post
Cloning puts power in the hands of a species (mankind) what only nature should have the power to do. Evolution involves both the advancement of species AND the destruction of another weaker species. Extinction is a part of nature and man should not intrude. Also you begin with cloning extinct animals and the slippery slope turns into cloning humans and other wild possibilities. This power is better left untouched.

No, bedsides the fact that we alone (humans) are responsible for near extinction of many species of animals. ****ing with evolution is a weak argument because in many cases like with dinosaurs we're not going to bring them back to life to walk this planet again. But rather to study this chain in evolution... A real life dinosaur can answer more questions than millions of bones we collected from earth.

Also bringing dinosaurs back to life is not a slippery slope to anything... it's completely unrelated to human cloning, that is we don't need to clone a an extict animal before we clone a human.
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Unread Feb 4th, 2008, 01:23 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I'm a big fan of survivial of the fitest, there is a reason the extinct are extinct.

yes, but is there a reason we shouldn't bring them back to study at least.
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Unread Feb 4th, 2008, 01:32 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I'm talking about religion mostly. It's going to be very chaotic.
I think humanity will advance light years ahead when we get rid of religion as an institution. I'm not going to deny existence of God, but church needs to go...
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Unread Feb 4th, 2008, 02:04 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirst View Post
Did they use organs as machines or something?
I vaguely remember the name, I think I've seen a bit of an episode. One of those cosy soft-lens/padded cell acoustics sci-fi dramas you see kicking about on channels like Sky Two in the early afternoon?
Actually it's only the first season that's worth watching, only 4 episodes. The rest is cheese. You probably saw one of those.
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Unread Feb 6th, 2008, 08:40 AM   #37 (permalink)
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The IVF, or test-tube, embryos were created using DNA from one man and two women.
Well, it's not cloning per se....but it is mucking about with nature and will probably lead to just as much controversy

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080205/...SKM52EPImdk3QF

now one of the reasons they say they're doing it :::::

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The idea is to prevent women with faults in their mitochondrial DNA passing diseases on to their children. Around one in 5,000 children suffer from mitochondrial diseases, which can include fatal liver, heart and brain disorders, deafness, muscular problems and forms of epilepsy.
did you know that male patterned hair loss [baldness] is passed on from the mother?.....are we going to breed a race of 'big-hair' babies?
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Unread Feb 6th, 2008, 09:38 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Anyone seen the movie Gattaca? It's not exactly about cloning but brings up moral and ethical issues about genes and DNA and our ability to control them and the social implications..... i thought it was an excellent film


As far as cloning, would cloning organs be restricted to people who can afford it... much like most medical treatment here in the US?? Or would they be given to anyone who needed it? I'm inclined to believe the first due to the fact it would require surgery and a lot of money just to clone an organ....
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Unread Feb 6th, 2008, 06:34 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Gattaca rules. So did the Lexx tv show.

But really, we clone plants all the time (tissue culture) and no ethical issues are ever raised.

Animal-centric bias!
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Unread Feb 6th, 2008, 06:47 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Animal-centric bias!
Technically we are animals.
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