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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 06:36 AM   #41 (permalink)
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waaat??? r u a n00b???

ur only a REAL cake maker if u use a whisk to MIX ur batter. i will never give up whisking... i love how it feels in my hand. i can speed up the whisk or slow down the whisk how i want and i can actually feel the friction of the whisk through the batter... maaaan u blender boys...

and not to mention the "warm" sound of whisking compared to shredding blender sound! whisking is much better quality IMO


good to see you around again...

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JM, hows korg performing with the ableton? and how did you integrate it into your set up?
performs beautifuly with ableton. i havent mapped out too much yet as im still playing around with different setups to see which i like more and will get the most use out of. but so far so good, its just amazing how you can just totally warp a track into a completely different sound.
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 08:51 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Nicadraus View Post
Here my two cents...


A DJ who uses the auto sync button is a wanna be DJ and a loser. Don't cheat yourself and the audience by using that function. You won't learn anything from it. Use the Pitch or Tempo control manually. That's how REAL DJs and Pros does. I wish that the auto sync button was never created. Because of that st*pid function, everybody can now call them selves DJs without the sweat from real training and research.

So which kind of a DJ do you belong to?





I am afraid I agree whole heartedly. As do thousands of other Djs around the world.


You just can't give someone more praise on a set than a guy who has done it properly because they use automation.

Mix placement & taking someone on a journey that stuff comes naturally anyway & its part of your style you develop.

I'm really not keen on the use of Ableton for DJ mixing. (saying that I have heard many a crap programmed Ableton set too).


Just because these big wig guys use it like Ritchie Hawtin, they didn't always use it, it wasn't always around. There in a position to use it & get no stick for it. I bet they think you have it easy nowadays for having to use it & still give respect for people who can use hardware.

Put an Ableton DJ on hardware & watch him get ten times worse. I just don't get it. Wheres the kudos in beat automation

So if a DJ cant beatmatch as well as another guy then technically he is not as good 'yet' as some of the other guys. We there for hold Kudos for these other guys but see the other DJ as a great DJ.



Anyway Numark Cue (Virtual DJ- relicensed) I think is better than traktor. It works & looks similar to a pair of Numark players.
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 09:25 AM   #43 (permalink)
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I am afraid I agree whole heartedly. As do thousands of other Djs around the world.


You just can't give someone more praise on a set than a guy who has done it properly because they use automation.

Mix placement & taking someone on a journey that stuff comes naturally anyway & its part of your style you develop.

I'm really not keen on the use of Ableton for DJ mixing. (saying that I have heard many a crap programmed Ableton set too).


Just because these big wig guys use it like Ritchie Hawtin, they didn't always use it, it wasn't always around. There in a position to use it & get no stick for it. I bet they think you have it easy nowadays for having to use it & still give respect for people who can use hardware.

Put an Ableton DJ on hardware & watch him get ten times worse. I just don't get it. Wheres the kudos in beat automation

So if a DJ cant beatmatch as well as another guy then technically he is not as good 'yet' as some of the other guys. We there for hold Kudos for these other guys but see the other DJ as a great DJ.



Anyway Numark Cue (Virtual DJ- relicensed) I think is better than traktor. It works & looks similar to a pair of Numark players.

i think the point everyone trys to make is (of course my opinion) that u cannot judge a DJ or DJs by beatmatching "skills". To me, beatmatching is not something that seperates DJs. i use CDJs because i like it... ppl use vinyl because they maybe been using it a long time and have tons of vinyl... ppl use software because they like to have more control over the sound of their mix. i would say software is most advanced way to mix... who cares about beatmatching when u can alter every detail?

so just do wat u like. but do not think someone is better just because u can beatmatch really well. how is ur EQing?
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 09:50 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I use CDJs, Vinyl & I have Ableton so this is coming from someone who has & uses all of it & mixed for 10 years its not just sour grapes. Just how I see it. I don't dislike anybody for using it either just not keen on it.

What about Eq'ing in which context do you mean?



Oh yeah & I'm not saying I'm better because of beatmatching I said 'someone' meaning 'anybody' its not about me.
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 10:04 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Mix placement & taking someone on a journey that stuff comes naturally anyway & its part of your style you develop.
so you honestly think that beatmatching skills are more important than that stuff?
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 10:09 AM   #46 (permalink)
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so you honestly think that beatmatching skills are more important than that stuff?

No. You have to have both.
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 10:14 AM   #47 (permalink)
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No. You have to have both.
why?

if the resulting music sounds just as good to the audience (they dont hear the difference between manual beatmatching and using a mouse on software) then as long as the journey and the and the track choice is good how is it any different?

the only exception is with turntablists where the whole thing is about putting on a show of amazing skills with equipment and doing it live.

for dancing in a club music is music regardless of how it is mixed...
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 10:28 AM   #48 (permalink)
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for dancing in a club music is music regardless of how it is mixed...
or radio like di.fm for example.
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 10:31 AM   #49 (permalink)
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It wont stop me a having a good time but it also doesn't take away the disappointment when I realise how the DJ is mixing. Put it this way if I go to a Chav ridden Ritzy I half expect the DJ to using a laptop or duals with a beatkeeper playing any old crap. If I go to a good club or super club I expect to go see good 'technical' DJs playing good music.

Whos to say turntabilism is so spectacular ? I know people who moan at me if I scratch on a mix because they plain don't like scratching. (& some people think its just plain showing off). Not everyone likes this kind of thing either.

I'm from the train of thought that you can't sit and plan a mix. Its this that keeps the top DJs there they don't plan over & over they have the ability to grab records & mix & go in the direction of where the crowd wants to go. When I mix I don't plan nothing.

I pretty much no which records I want to play but don't know where I will mix them or for how long I just pick it up on the fly.



& Effects are starting to go stale in the mix for me. Once you have heard one stutter or phaser you have heard them all it can get tedious.
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 10:58 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I pretty much no which records I want to play but don't know where I will mix them or for how long I just pick it up on the fly.
how is this different from picking tunes to go in a software mix on the fly? dj's using ableton etc. are still doing it on the fly if they're playing to a crowd properly.

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& Effects are starting to go stale in the mix for me. Once you have heard one stutter or phaser you have heard them all it can get tedious.
agreed there - a decent tune has all the effects and stuff already built in - unless your mixing with very minimal stuff but working three or four tunes at once to build a sound...
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 11:19 AM   #51 (permalink)
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how is this different from picking tunes to go in a software mix on the fly? dj's using ableton etc. are still doing it on the fly if they're playing to a crowd properly.


Its not any different if they do do this.


But where is the skill base. In learning the program ?

I learned live so what ? it can take hours or days to learn a program but a long time to perfect manual skills.

I learned Microsoft Office too.

You cant honestly tell me that life isn't any easier mixing with live than with hardware ?

I so wish Live wasn't able to be used for mixing just because of the fact of doing a good hardware mix & people accusing you of using the computer through Jealousy

(then you also have think if this how they think then what do they actually, think of the DJ actually using it )?
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 11:32 AM   #52 (permalink)
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But where is the skill base. In learning the program ?
as you yourself said - "Mix placement & taking someone on a journey" - this is what's important.

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Originally Posted by DJ Ashley M View Post
You cant honestly tell me that life isn't any easier mixing with live than with hardware ?
i agree that the beatmatching is easier using live compared to using hardware, but so what?


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Originally Posted by DJ Ashley M View Post
I so wish Live wasn't able to be used for mixing just because of the fact of doing a good hardware mix & people accusing you of using the computer through Jealousy
so basically you spent all this time learning to use hardware and now your sulking 'cos "jealous people" accuse you of having done it an easier way - why do you care what they think? does it make you feel stupid for having wasted your time learning skills that aren't necessary or something? if you think like that it's no wonder this bothers you - you should know that such people are clearly ignorant of the skill it takes to be a dj and hence not worth worrying about their opinions...

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(then you also have think if this how they think then what do they actually, think of the DJ actually using it )?
the only ones who matter are the members of the audience enjoying the music - if there's people judging your poorly for not using hardware surely the only real reason this ould bother you is you yourself judge people poorly for not using hardware - you're a victim of your own predjudices.

you need to develop more respect for your own skills in pick tunes, creating a journey and controlling energy flows to make a crowd go wild...

either that or go out there and do some turntablism to stun people with your amazing hardware skills!
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 11:53 AM   #53 (permalink)
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as you yourself said - "Mix placement & taking someone on a journey" - this is what's important.



i agree that the beatmatching is easier using live compared to using hardware, but so what?




so basically you spent all this time learning to use hardware and now your sulking 'cos "jealous people" accuse you of having done it an easier way - why do you care what they think? does it make you feel stupid for having wasted your time learning skills that aren't necessary or something? if you think like that it's no wonder this bothers you - you should know that such people are clearly ignorant of the skill it takes to be a dj and hence not worth worrying about their opinions...



the only ones who matter are the members of the audience enjoying the music - if there's people judging your poorly for not using hardware surely the only real reason this ould bother you is you yourself judge people poorly for not using hardware - you're a victim of your own predjudices.

you need to develop more respect for your own skills in pick tunes, creating a journey and controlling energy flows to make a crowd go wild...

either that or go out there and do some turntablism to stun people with your amazing hardware skills!


Not really. I just wouldn't get taken seriously if I used a laptop. Its not an option for me. So for me its CDJs. I know I still get hassle from vinyl purists in the same way but like it or not vinyl is going. A software that emulates CD players work work in the same way.

People hear a good mix & they say Live straight away. The countless times people sarcastically ask me 'your a computer DJ aren't you'? I lose count. Or he used a computer hes not a real dj. I get so angry. This is the only reason I incorporate CDJ obvious effects / scratching now so it says yes it is hardware now get lost kind of thing.

Each to there own anyway. Horses for courses.
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 12:14 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Maybe we should invite DJ Lithium for an opinion? Just kidding...

Beatmatching... it's a plus if you know how to do it. You'd be a lot better than trusting the sync button blindly. Other than that you're only wasting time moving the slider up and down. I can understand those guys who insist on knowing how to beatmatch. They went the hard way learning and don't approve when someone goes the easy way. As I can see they are actually degrading themselves. If they can do something more than others, they should know better to stay above this stupid dispute.

I use a really nifty, extremely lightweight, open source dj tool called bpmdj. It's doing almost everything for you, all you have to do is align the tracks and you don't have to worry that they would go out of sync because it's also very accurate. It has it's drawbacks, it only runs on GNU/Linux system, requires an external mixer and compilation will be pain for unexperienced linux users.
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 12:16 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Maybe we should invite DJ Lithium for an opinion? Just kidding...
and set Makena up against him
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 12:29 PM   #56 (permalink)
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What Paul Makena ? He'll hypnotize me in to using Ableton Joke

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_McKenna


No I know what you mean.
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 08:13 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Not really. I just wouldn't get taken seriously if I used a laptop. Its not an option for me. So for me its CDJs. I know I still get hassle from vinyl purists in the same way but like it or not vinyl is going. A software that emulates CD players work work in the same way.

People hear a good mix & they say Live straight away. The countless times people sarcastically ask me 'your a computer DJ aren't you'? I lose count. Or he used a computer hes not a real dj. I get so angry. This is the only reason I incorporate CDJ obvious effects / scratching now so it says yes it is hardware now get lost kind of thing.

Each to there own anyway. Horses for courses.
to be quiet honest cojo and i got into this arguement over two years ago. i felt it was cheating too..however alot things changed my mind about that.

are you really that self concious that you worry about what the people say wether you did it on software or not? there's so much more then just beatmatching to being a dj. if it was all about beatmatching do you honestly think, gee i dont know, tiesto would've been number one for so long? and how many times have you gone to a club and a good club where the dj's couldnt mix for sh*t but yet they were residents there? yes it can be frustrating that you put in the time and effort on how to beatmatch, but get over it. the longer you dwell on this, the more your hindering yourself.

i know quiet a few software dj's that blow the socks of hardware dj's. am i supposed to give more kudos to the hardware dj, just because he's hardware? absolutely not.

i've been spinning vinyl for over 8 years and i dont think im better then a software dj purely on time and effort, and being able to get two or more beats insync. it's kinda like if you could do a handstand and the guy next to you couldnt. are you a better person purely on the respects that you can or learned how to do something the fellow next to you didnt?

however i think this topic may have spawned a new competition though. if the hardware dj's feel they deserve or are better dj's just because they can beatmatch. why dont we leave it up to the listeners to decide?

Software vs. Hardware
All Dj's must use the same pre-selected tracks
No minimum time limit but kept to under an hour in length
Must use all songs must be incorporated into the mix

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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 09:09 PM   #58 (permalink)
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To be honest all most all people I know know my views on this & know I have no nasty ness directed at these people who use Live to DJ but its just my views on it.

I just don't like it when the live users say beatmatching isn't everything I see it as just an excuse for using it in the first place. Take beatmatching away from the mix & see what happens software included there is no foundation for the modern mix. With out beatmatching there would be no well placed phrased mixing & no journey like you want. Just dodgy drops.

But guess what they don't use it to do anything special after saying it can do this & that just beatmix & blend the same.

& no its not about me (for the second time). I haven't said I think I'm better than anyone else (I'm nowhere near that big headed & arrogant) In fact I think quite the opposite of my own ability. Its up to others to judge your abilities not yourself.

& yes I do give more kudos to guys that still do the extra work themselves. If I went to see you Jeremy & you used two CDJS or TTs then yes I would hold you in a higher regard than if you used Ableton. But thats just me. & so do most people I know. Thats not to say I can't enjoy myself to a Live DJs set though.

& not every Ableton DJ is a good DJ anyway even with live so I see your point on that one. Or Ableton mix is a good mix.

I have gotten into this argument before. Live users say the same things every time. That I already knew everything that was coming back already. I was just going to pass on by & say nothing to this thread then get into this boring conversation all over again, but I thought stuff it I'm in titled to voice my own opinion & so be it.

You seem to forget I have Live too, this isn't just a one sided view from me. I'll have conversations with people in a club "what do you think of the night, alright isn't'' I'll ask. "alright pretty good, DJs using a laptop though".

I used to get the same views in regards to CDs though (these arn't even bedroom djs or anything these are normal guys views).
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 09:30 PM   #59 (permalink)
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To be honest all most all people I know know my views on this & know I have no nasty ness directed at these people who use Live to DJ but its just my views on it.

I just don't like it when the live users say beatmatching isn't everything I see it as just an excuse for using it in the first place. Take beatmatching away from the mix & see what happens software included there is no foundation for the modern mix. With out beatmatching there would be no well placed phrased mixing & no journey like you want. Just dodgy drops.

But guess what they don't use it to do anything special after saying it can do this & that just beatmix & blend the same.

& no its not about me (for the second time). I haven't said I think I'm better than anyone else (I'm nowhere near that big headed & arrogant) In fact I think quite the opposite of my own ability. Its up to others to judge your abilities not yourself.

& yes I do give more kudos to guys that still do the extra work themselves. If I went to see you Jeremy & you used two CDJS or TTs then yes I would hold you in a higher regard than if you used Ableton. But thats just me. & so do most people I know. Thats not to say I can't enjoy myself to a Live DJs set though.

& not every Ableton DJ is a good DJ anyway even with live so I see your point on that one. Or Ableton mix is a good mix.

I have gotten into this argument before. Live users say the same things every time. That I already knew everything that was coming back already. I was just going to pass on by & say nothing to this thread then get into this boring conversation all over again, but I thought stuff it I'm in titled to voice my own opinion & so be it.

You seem to forget I have Live too, this isn't just a one sided view from me. I'll have conversations with people in a club "what do you think of the night, alright isn't'' I'll ask. "alright pretty good, DJs using a laptop though".

I used to get the same views in regards to CDs though (these arn't even bedroom djs or anything these are normal guys views).
i didnt forget you have live too. and this isnt a one sided view for me either. dont forget i spin and have spun vinyl too.

and you do realize that atleast half the people who responded back at people who looked down on software dj's are hardware dj's themselves. they also say beatmatching isnt everything. so it's not just software dj's that say this, it's hardware dj's too.

your too wrapped up in what other people think of you or see you as a dj. you didnt have to say you thought you were better then other people, your post spoke for themselves.

im not trying to change your views or argue with you, but as you think you knew exactly what a live user would reply with, it's the same with hardware. personally i was just like you. but afterwhile, i just didnt give a f*ck anymore. i know what my skills are, your not gonna get my panties in bunch saying i used software to do a mix or think any less of me for it. my mixes speak for themselves. and thats all that really matters in the end.

it's still all about the music and the coulture that surrounds it. too many people are forgeting that and getting to caught up on who's using what and wether or not they're a "real" dj or not.

now prog house dj to prog house dj. do you respect sasha less because he uses software and the maven or do you still hold him in high regards?
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Unread Aug 12th, 2008, 10:01 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I think he has his head screwed on using a desktop instead of a laptop (& I know why he chooses a desktop over laptop he must be a fellow tech head.

I know Sasha of old & now. So thats the thing. & he is a good DJ of course. But I wont be following suit just because a famous DJ uses it. Everyones entitled to use what they want of course.

As for me being too wrapped up in what people think, its not thats my generation & area in regards to DJ'ing it just gets built into you. Maybe if I moved & lived / had lived elsewhere things would be different.

I already got to that stage of what planet etc & I don't really give a f*ck anymore. But its just my view. Its become a bit of tongue & cheek humor elsewhere me & Live mixing. & I have already said if I ever owned a bar / club of my own I would put a tongue in cheek plaque on the wall ''All Laptop DJs take a pay cut on the way out''

Of course I get ''real DJs use vinyl'' said all the time also.

My most favored DJ remains Ferry Corsten in anycase.
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