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Unread Sep 16th, 2010, 02:36 PM   #21 (permalink)
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but the original is better than the 2010 version in every respect IMO.
Fully agreed.

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Two of my alltime favorites...when i saw them i immediately opened both links in different tabs...had me wondering why it sounded all weird and trainwrecky till i realised they were both playing
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Unread Sep 16th, 2010, 08:23 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Smile Well said!

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Originally Posted by Dustwave View Post
I could not agree more. I posted a message about this some time ago, so i'll just quote that:



I like techno, but when i listen to trance i want to hear actual trance. Since 2005 or so this techtrance crap has made it's way to the mainstream trance, and nowadays it's at a point where i find certain tracks and artists absolutely appalling for their utter lack of understanding of the build-up and climax in a track. They build up with awesome trancy synths and pads and strings and whatnot, and then right when the massive trance climax is supposed to happen you're left with minimal techno? WTF?! Nothing wrong with techno by itself, but you just can not change from full on epic trance to minimal techno in half a second. That's like a Rambo movie turning into a romantic drama halfway through. Or like the advertising, the anticipation and the excitement of a large concert, only for the whole show to be cancelled on the day it's supposed to happen. A climax (and it's build-up simply) does not work that way. It MUST deliver. No matter which way they turn and twist their pathetic arguments about trying something different etc, that basic principle does not change.

There is awesome techtrance too. Marco V for example is great at it. But it's the mentally retarded producers who lack the basic understanding of something as simple as a climax who absolutely ruin it. And unfortunately there are far more of them than there are good ones.
True, that false climax, or just sampling a very trance melody incoherently during a track is so fake. It's actually an insult, and probably more mentally/emotionally damaging than n e drug u can do at a party. I got 1 solution off the top of my head: People simply need to complain, it's ez, just casually tell a dj what u like. Or tell other clubheads, word gets around. And it adds up. And just so ppl know, it can be hard and still be melodic. We probably all know some verry epic trance tracks that would rip the throat out of a gabber track. Just bc a genre sounds like crap doesn't (i.e. noise or minimal) doesn't make it's people cool.
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Unread Sep 16th, 2010, 08:41 PM   #23 (permalink)
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taking from dusty's post.

i think its more the producers creating clubs tunes than trance tunes. if ur at a festival 9i was just as e zoo so this is where im getting this) the anti climatic part right after a break actually creates a moshing/jumping in the air effect then the melody comes back ina and ur groovin again. but when u listen to it at home or on the mp3 player it sounds like shit. i think producers are creating music for the raves instead of creating raves for the music. this is funny i was thinking about this today before even reading this thread
aw, i didnt get 2 go 2 e zoo this year. But yea that explains some of it but I think the main problem is the lack of melody. 4 example we've all heard (melodic) hardstyle tracks that would get a much more sustainably insane response from a huge party/rave! It's ez to create a bulid up, but to have a coherent audial plateau for people to fly to after u've thrown them up into the air takes time and skills. There needs to be quality control, just get ur friends to go BOOOO every time a DJ does that XD
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Unread Sep 16th, 2010, 09:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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aw, i didnt get 2 go 2 e zoo this year. But yea that explains some of it but I think the main problem is the lack of melody. 4 example we've all heard (melodic) hardstyle tracks that would get a much more sustainably insane response from a huge party/rave! It's ez to create a bulid up, but to have a coherent audial plateau for people to fly to after u've thrown them up into the air takes time and skills. There needs to be quality control, just get ur friends to go BOOOO every time a DJ does that XD
Jesus, how much Haterade did you drink today. If you're not enjoying the music be respectful and leave, if you're going to bitch about it and BOOO in the face of somebody who's there to entertain you... well you deserve to be punched in the face.
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Unread Sep 16th, 2010, 10:08 PM   #25 (permalink)
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1:20 Something's happening!!!
1:23 It could have climaxed right now, a lot of tension lost but there's still hope, depending on what follows now this can either be a good thing or a bad thing.
1:36 it's coming, it's coming, it's coming!
1:46 the excitement is killing me!! ALMOST!!!
1:49 Heeeeereeeeeeee weeeeee gooooooooooooooooo!
1:50 Uh.
1:53 What?
1:55 Are you f*cking kidding me?! What is this crap?! Where's the melody?! Where's the energy?! Where's the climax?! Track utterly ruined.



i know what you mean, i think of those as being like a fart that failed to launch

you got all this gas, your stomach rumbles loudly, you feel its trying to come out and you get all excited at the thought of all that pressure finally being unleashed and building and building and......pffft


having said that there's been some great stuff out this year, not as much as last year though
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Unread Sep 16th, 2010, 10:08 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Dustwave and Skydin, i feel you guys totally. Dustie thanks for your examples. I have some other examples that really hit home on the anti-climatic point more so than the Out Of The Blue rmx, but i'll try to post them later. i was listening to a really pumpin' Trance mix earlier and one of the tracks started out really great. The bass and rhythm dropped and the filtered supersaw melody came in. At this point i jumped off my girlfriend and started dancing like a madman. The breakdown started to build back up and was about to explode with the supersaw melody reaching full frequency peak. than at the the release point... puff... into a boring minimal drum and bass (not the genre) groove that lacked any excitement. i went into depression afterwards. WTF is going on? As you stated earlier Skydin, I strongly believe there's a conspiracy to screw Trance over. The main elements of Epic Trance is the breakdown/buildup/release and it's being systematically weakened.
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Unread Sep 16th, 2010, 10:15 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Jesus, how much Haterade did you drink today. If you're not enjoying the music be respectful and leave, if you're going to bitch about it and BOOO in the face of somebody who's there to entertain you... well you deserve to be punched in the face.
+1

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Unread Sep 16th, 2010, 10:46 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Here's a snippet I made that you'll have to download. This track started off great, but big Fail in the release. I'm not sure of the track name or artist.
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Unread Sep 16th, 2010, 10:50 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Here's a snippet I made that you'll have to download. This track started off great, but big Fail in the release. I'm not sure of the track name or artist.
Actually I thought it was interesting. It seems like the artist is experimenting. It was certainly unpredictable which is good. I just think that all of you are getting old.
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Unread Sep 16th, 2010, 11:21 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Actually I thought it was interesting. It seems like the artist is experimenting. It was certainly unpredictable which is good. I just think that all of you are getting old.
It's as interesting and unpredictable as a weak cumshot. If the artists want to experiment, they should look for another way to do so instead of messing with the good ol' build and release formula. DG you should by now age is just a number
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Unread Sep 17th, 2010, 01:50 AM   #31 (permalink)
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...At this point i jumped off my girlfriend...
whoa! how big is she?
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Unread Sep 17th, 2010, 02:34 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Thumbs up inspiring thread

from the life of DJ/Producer Joe van Whotsisname

(stretches at the window, coincidentally falling into the J-pose)

oh, what a wonderful morning, quick cup of coffee and off into my studio.

ah, great, all my shiny hardware all the nice software all the everything.

(flicks thru DJ mag, admires the poster on the wall with the guy with the Mickey Mouse head)

so lets start, build up, epic, sounds great, just like the olden days when i had fook-all technology.

bum-didi-bum-didi-bum, good stuff this, time for breakdown

(picks nose and farts)

hmm, lets twist this one and slide that one...nice breakdown

need a break too, gotta have a dump

(grabs DJ mag and wanders off to the loo)

uh, oh, ah, great stuff again, I'm over 40 now, nearly better than sex...at least more regular

(emerges from toilet with a light footed walk)

feel great now, a bit empty but relieved, gotta reflect that in the track

(continues working on all dem knobs and sliders (did he wash his hands?))

(ponders over the finished "masterpiece")

hmm, sounds kinda okay, wouldn't have dared to release that 5 or 10 years ago but wtf, kids are not gonna notice on their tiny phone speakers and hey, what do they expect for a 49p or 79p download...fook 'em

(stretches again, coincidentally falling into the J-pose)
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Unread Sep 17th, 2010, 05:51 AM   #33 (permalink)
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It seems like the artist is experimenting.
You say that as if experimenting is always a good thing. You're a wise guy DG, i think you know better than that
Certain things should not be experimented with, they have already been tried (and proven to fail) or simply can't work in another way. For example...you can experiment all you want with breathing water, but enough people have tried already and they all died. It's nothing short of stupid to even try. It's the same thing with a climax really...it's not something you CAN change. Build-up, then climax...simple as that really.

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It was certainly unpredictable which is good.
You know what's also unpredictable? If a total stranger walks up to you, starts telling you a joke and then in the middle of a sentence kicks you in the face for no reason at all. You know what else is very unpredictable? If your girlfriend is giving head, and right before the climax she gets a muscle spasm and bites your dick off. Is that good too? Unpredictability is only a good thing if it turns out nice.

Though this particular example wasn't even that bad (i've heard far worse)...i wouldn't spin it, but at least there was a feel of energeticness still going on. Nevertheless, the release should be better than the build-up. Not the other way around.
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Unread Sep 17th, 2010, 05:51 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Actually I thought it was interesting. It seems like the artist is experimenting. It was certainly unpredictable which is good. I just think that all of you are getting old.
Yeah, that's probably it allright, were old enough to know what the most important part of a song is
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Unread Sep 17th, 2010, 09:35 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Actually I thought it was interesting. It seems like the artist is experimenting. It was certainly unpredictable which is good. I just think that all of you are getting old. ----> () <--------
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It's as interesting and unpredictable as a weak cumshot. If the artists want to experiment, they should look for another way to do so instead of messing with the good ol' build and release formula. DG you should by now age is just a number
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Yeah, that's probably it allright, were old enough to know what the most important part of a song is
I love it when a joke goes over people's heads.

I wasn't talking about age Zacman. I thought you knew.

As far as the flaming on me for stating a simple opinion, those comments will fall on deaf ears as I have better things to do with my time than to argue with people.

I wrote what I wrote. I like it when people experiment in trance. I like the track that Zacman posted. The music is changing people. Get over it!!! There's a reason why trance is changing in the first place. It's popularity is still going up. These changes that are taking place in trance are taking place probably because people are getting tired of the same old predictable formula that has plagued over a million tracks in the past 15 years. Because of that fact, the music is changing. It happens!!!

Trance is going minimal or electro probably because the popularity is rising in those genres and the older trance genre is so desperate to keep its popularity that it has to barrow elements from those two genres. Oh no, what a horrible thing. Whatever will we do now? This has nothing to do with me. If you guys are so pissed off about how trance is going downhill, then contact the record companies and gripe to them about how it's not the glory days of 2005 anymore. I'm sure they would like to hear all about it. Maybe you should contact Tiesto, AvB or PvD and tell them all about it. They would love to hear about it.

The trance genre is all about what sells. You all wanted it like that and now you got it. Whatever makes money in trance is where trance will get its resources to sell it. If that's in the minimal, tech house or electro house genres, then trance will barrow from that. This is why it's not good for music to go commercial and now you guys are feeling the downside of it. Too bad!!! It's good for me though. The more trance changes, the better I feel because I have plenty of new material to appreciate.

Nuff said, my work is done here.
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Unread Sep 17th, 2010, 10:11 AM   #36 (permalink)
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The trance genre is all about what sells. You all wanted it like that and now you got it.
That's right. I'm always looking to listen to music that sells, regardless of whether I like it or not. I've always wanted it to be that way. Trance is special because it's the only edm genre that works this way.

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Unread Sep 17th, 2010, 10:25 AM   #37 (permalink)
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You're missing the point DG, at least mine. That the sound of trance is changing is not the problem at all, there are many great tracks with today's sound too! This isn't really about trance in the first place, that's just the specific case we're discussing here. But this goes for literally every form of excitement on the planet. Every song on the radio no matter which genre, every movie in the cinema, every book in the library, every time you have sex, every sportscar you drive, every event you go to, every mountain you climb. Everything. Build-up ---> climax. That is as hard a fact as gravity. Tried and tested by literally billions of people over thousands of years.

And just for the record, by no means whatsoever do i consider 2005 to be the glory days of trance. It's when things seemed to start going wrong much quicker than before. Possibly because of advances in technology (=computers and production software), anybody with a simple computer can get started, including those with no understanding of tension.

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As far as the flaming on me
Afraid of a discussion, DG? Quote one flame towards you. Please enlighten me because i can't find it.
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Unread Sep 17th, 2010, 11:29 AM   #38 (permalink)
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You're missing the point DG, at least mine. That the sound of trance is changing is not the problem at all, there are many great tracks with today's sound too! This isn't really about trance in the first place, that's just the specific case we're discussing here. But this goes for literally every form of excitement on the planet. Every song on the radio no matter which genre, every movie in the cinema, every book in the library, every time you have sex, every sportscar you drive, every event you go to, every mountain you climb. Everything. Build-up ---> climax. That is as hard a fact as gravity. Tried and tested by literally billions of people over thousands of years.

And just for the record, by no means whatsoever do i consider 2005 to be the glory days of trance. It's when things seemed to start going wrong much quicker than before. Possibly because of advances in technology (=computers and production software), anybody with a simple computer can get started, including those with no understanding of tension.

Afraid of a discussion, DG? Quote one flame towards you. Please enlighten me because i can't find it.
The specific cases you are talking about here aren't specific to trance either. There are shitty remixes and productions like that in almost every genre. Shit, there are so many tech and deep house tracks I have come across that fail miserably comes breakdown. It's not an easy art to master and And what you said is most likely the reason why. But you have to be kidding about experimentation. Music is an art, at least it was, you're talking about it as if it's a consumer good, a commodity traded on the exchange.


Experimentation is not easy but is necessary even in something that was proven to work. For every 100 experiments there may be only 1 good track, but it is worth everything. Case in point - deep house. It was nowhere in 2005. Then comes along http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgBLA...eature=related and the entire genre goes through a revolution. The past couple of years were absolutely golden for deep and tech house.

This is also why I love Kompakt. That's one label that still treats music as art and experimentation is at the center of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JtXLxy08Qc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW84A3hX7bM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPQX6mBLfws
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Unread Sep 17th, 2010, 11:54 AM   #39 (permalink)
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The specific cases you are talking about here aren't specific to trance either. There are shitty remixes and productions like that in almost every genre. Shit, there are so many tech and deep house tracks I have come across that fail miserably comes breakdown. It's not an easy art to master
I fully agree...it goes way further than trance, way further than music even.

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But you have to be kidding about experimentation. Music is an art, at least it was, you're talking about it as if it's a consumer good, a commodity traded on the exchange.
No, i'm dead serious. Certain aspects are pointless to experiment with. The build-up followed by the climax is one of those aspects. Just like a car without wheels won't drive, a build-up without climax won't satisfy. It's not trying something different for something that has been proven to work, it's trying something that has been proven not to work.

Then you could say, you CAN make a car without wheels. Slap tank tracks under it and there ya go (technically there are still wheels, but okay), or put a rotor on the roof and take off into the sky. People have tried many things. But fact is, none of them ever worked. I'm sure one day someone will figure out some form of alternative, but hey, that's not really gonna be a car anymore, is it?
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Unread Sep 17th, 2010, 11:56 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Eh?! COMPUTER SPEAKERS?! What do you think i am? Some rebelious teenager who cranks his logitech speakers all day?! I've been a DJ for a decade.............
This part confused me. How old are you if you don't mind my asking? If you're the age I think, you would have been (professionally) deejaying at age 12.
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Jesus, how much Haterade did you drink today. If you're not enjoying the music be respectful and leave, if you're going to bitch about it and BOOO in the face of somebody who's there to entertain you... well you deserve to be punched in the face.
+2.
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whoa! how big is she?
What a visual. You do realize that the standard Carribean male prefers their women to be size 18 on up.
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....We all do.
Nope. Not all.
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