Utah Rave shutdown by Authorities

[Pb]

Originally Posted by npnp

shoot to the head, get rid of cctv.

Sorry. What?

[Pb]

Originally Posted by npnp

behaviour - rules of engagement, british style.
behavior - 'merican style

I'm sorry. I still don't get your point. Are you trying to compare UK and US police? I've not encountered any police during the brief moment I was in London. Anyway, I think you have developed a very skewed view of police officers because of your location. The US, yes US, police officers I have around here are very nice and friendly.

NB: not all people who spell British style are from UK. I would highly recommend that you take a gander at rest of the US and the world at large.

[DJ Mallorca]

Originally Posted by npnp

I couldn't compare the bobbies with the police here, but I know one thing for sure, if you told to freeze in the UK, you better not fall down as the innocent Brazilian did, or your head might get blown off.

I only took "issiu" - as the British would say - with your spelling of behaviour 'cause I always get confused myself.

Woah, easy tiger.... there's no need for that. An innocent man got shot several times in the head and it makes the news.....

Big Deal!! You make it sound like it's a common thing man - I'm sure the US or even Columbia for example are more than capable of shooting innocents right??

People may get offended with that...

[maz]

Original Source
Final information gathering on the Utah Rave situation:

Since I was unable to get Utah County Sheriff's Department Public Information Officer for the Spanish Fork Canyon incident on the phone (3 voice mails, no returned calls), I asked the Sheriff's Office receptionist if there was anyone else that I could speak to about these events. Lo and behold, I was transferred to Sheriff Tracy himself. Many of you that will read this will likely be skeptical to say the least, but I found the Sheriff to be remarkably calm, well-spoken, direct, and--my impression--frank about the actions of the 20th, providing some additional helpful backstory that helps me to piece much of this together. Sheriff Tracy responded to questions that I asked about the events of the night, which seems to paint a picture to me that is fairly clear:

1. The landowner Cody Bernell Childs (Trudy Childs would appear to be his mother, and may be the deed holder on the land in question) spoke with the Sheriff's Department AND the Commissioner's Office prior to the party and inquired about the additional Mass Gathering Permit. According to the Sheriff, he was told by both parties that the permit was required. Here's where it gets weird: Mr. Childs never applied for the permit. Why would someone go in specifically seeking information about the permit and not fill out the application? Did Mr. Childs deceive the promoters and tell them that it wasn't needed or simply fail to communicate what he had learned? Or, perhaps, did Mr. Childs report back to the promoters about the requirement and the promoter dropped the ball? Then the other question has to be why did Commissioner White fail to inform me that Mr. Childs had come by and asked about the permit?

2. Sheriff Tracy shed some light on the incident that was referenced as having occurred some weeks ago at the same location. Apparently, in this incident, weapons were found on persons and on the grounds (apparently abandoned by people fleeing the scene). While the number of weapons is actually quite small (4), this does provide some logic for the military-like response of the officers. What's odd, though, is that if you check the arrest history of Cody Childs, you only see one arrest in Utah County other than for the night in question occurring on 28 March 2005 for a variety of charges including the posession of a firearm--which would only be prohibited if Mr. Childs had felony convictions elsewhere--and a variety of drug charges. Why he would not have been shown as booked in the incident reported as "3 weeks ago" by Sheriff Tracy is unclear.

3. Factoid on arrests that I wasn't previously aware: when "arrests" are made, the vernacular is referring to the number of actual charges filed against one or more persons. Therefore, the 60+ "arrests" that were made were charges filed against 23 individuals.

4. Tracy reported that he was at the scene during the raid. He says that tear gas was not used. He explained that what witnesses saw was more likely dust from the helicopter being kicked up from the low flight pattern. The tactical teams were outfitted for crowd control, did have bean bag shooters, did have SWAT "tanks", and did have tazers. None of these items was deemed necessary for use and were not deployed save one "near tazering" of a man fleeing the scene in an automobile under the influence. The man pulled over prior to the use of the tazer. Sheriff Tracy says that precisely 3 people were taken "to the dirt" during the raid. He stated that the persons subdued were done so with knees on their chests. The female that is shown going down in the video that we've likely all seen apparently started kicking officers, which was not captured on film. He went on to say that attack dogs were not used and were not "sicked" on party goers.

4. I asked Sheriff Tracy about the issues that, frankly, were nearest and dearest to my heart: violations of due process by officers. He stated that officers became aware of the party via flyers, purchased tickets and received map point instructions like all other paying attendees. Undercovers went to the party, observed illegal activities, and called in the calvary. He stated that ticket stubs and flyers have been admitted as evidence copies of which could only be released to attorneys doing discovery. Similarly, the folder of permits, business plans and other information that was "handed over by event security to officers" had also been admitted to evidence.

5. I asked Sheriff Tracy about specifics on the 17 year-old girl that was treated for an "MDMA overdose" at the scene and released to her parents. Most of us know that an overdose like this is both hard to come by and impossible to treat without hospitalization, so how was the young girl treated. Apparently, the celebrations of having "saved the girl's life" are somewhat overblown. The girl was presented to site EMTs contracted by the event (apparently employed by the Spanish Fork City Rescue Squad) with a pulserate of 176 (I get WAY over that just being on the eliptical trainer at the gym and I'm 30...so what!?). The parents of the girl were advised to take the girl to the hospital for further treatment, but there's no information as to whether or not that actually happened.

6. Sheriff Tracy provided some insight at the conclusion of our
conversation that I found to be most interesting. First, remember the 2AM caberet laws in Salt Lake City? In Utah County you can't dance after 1AM. So, even if every permit in the book had been filed, no drugs and no underage drinking were involved, the party could have been shut down at 1AM regardless. Sheriff Tracy stated that he felt it was appropriate that people lobby the Board of Commissioners to change the caberet law as it is the county's legislative body. He said (paraphrasing here...) that, "There's nothing fundamentally wrong with having a rave or a punk rock concert or a rap concert or whatever you want to do." He agreed that regardless of the public gathering a certain amount of crime was to be expected, but if promoters would work with his department, involve them in the planning, and have the at the event that they could more easily hold individuals responsible for their illegal actions rather than shutting down entire events.

From a reliable source.

[byte]

"There's nothing fundamentally wrong with having a rave or a punk rock concert or a rap concert or whatever you want to do." He agreed that regardless of the public gathering a certain amount of crime was to be expected, but if promoters would work with his department, involve them in the planning, and have the at the event that they could more easily hold individuals responsible for their illegal actions rather than shutting down entire events."

So lesson to promoters: Next time you hold a rave, contact your local police and work with them to provide a safe and legal environment.

Man, that just sounds fooked up and weird!

[djGT]

Originally Posted by byte

So lesson to promoters: Next time you hold a rave, contact your local police and work with them to provide a safe and legal environment.

Work with them? More like tell them which parties to raid next!

[THE TRUTH]

Originally Posted by djGT

Work with them? More like tell them which parties to raid next!

Attitudes like that are exactly why there is such a negative image on the EDM Industry and Raves.....

[ChArBrOiL]

This was blown way out of proportion. Nobody was beaten or mistreated. None of the videos show that. The only "eyewitness accounts" you read are anonymous posters on some message board who could be anybody.

[djGT]

Originally Posted by THE TRUTH

Attitudes like that are exactly why there is such a negative image on the EDM Industry and Raves.....

If you ever decide to throw a rave, please make sure to work with the local police.

[THE TRUTH]

Originally Posted by djGT

If you ever decide to throw a rave, please make sure to work with the local police.

I have.....not a rave, but much larger to the tune of 35,000+ people drinking for three days straight. One of the most hated events from my school & local authorities. I had no problems because I took the proper steps.....Individuals got busted for drugs, weapons, and MIP's, but no problems on my end.

Police may not agree with what you are doing, but regardless, they will work with you if your event is legal....

[byte]

Originally Posted by maz

From a reliable source.

Just gotta say after browsing through that thread it appears the person who posted that message, ramz, is a third party individual who was originally advocating on behalf of the ravers, and had a chage of heart after speaking personally with the Sheriff. So basically the post is what the Sheriff said, re-iterated in someone else's words.

I just wanted to make that clear because from the tone of the post (ie. "final information gathering on the Utah Rave situation") it almost sounded like it was the promoter's final conclusions about the whole event. IT'S NOT. Although maz is correct in that the individual who posted that message seems to be an intelligent and respectable source.

[Sentinel]

Originally Posted by THE TRUTH

I have.....not a rave, but much larger to the tune of 35,000+ people drinking for three days straight. One of the most hated events from my school & local authorities. I had no problems because I took the proper steps.....Individuals got busted for drugs, weapons, and MIP's, but no problems on my end.

Police may not agree with what you are doing, but regardless, they will work with you if your event is legal....

Do you mind if I ask what this event was?

[THE TRUTH]

Chilifest...Philantrophy event that donates over $200,000 to charity every year.

Started as a fraternity philantropy event in a Wal-Mart parking lot, ended up getting so big that we had to incorporate it into it's own organization because the school administration was doing everything they could to shut it down.

[djGT]

Originally Posted by THE TRUTH

Police may not agree with what you are doing, but regardless, they will work with you if your event is legal....

Well, I hope every police department will be as helpful as yours, congrats on your event, especially for charity!

[ediblesound]

Originally Posted by ChArBrOiL

This was blown way out of proportion. Nobody was beaten or mistreated. None of the videos show that. The only "eyewitness accounts" you read are anonymous posters on some message board who could be anybody.

i totally agree. excuse my jumping all over it relentlessly

life goes on. ahhh yeah! RAVE ON!

[THE TRUTH]

Originally Posted by djGT

Well, I hope every police department will be as helpful as yours, congrats on your event, especially for charity!

Thanks....

[maz]

Originally Posted by byte

Just gotta say after browsing through that thread it appears the person who posted that message, ramz, is a third party individual who was originally advocating on behalf of the ravers, and had a chage of heart after speaking personally with the Sheriff. So basically the post is what the Sheriff said, re-iterated in someone else's words.

I just wanted to make that clear because from the tone of the post (ie. "final information gathering on the Utah Rave situation") it almost sounded like it was the promoter's final conclusions about the whole event. IT'S NOT. Although maz is correct in that the individual who posted that message seems to be an intelligent and respectable source.

the guy that posted it is good. I'm sure he looked everything up, he has yet to do any stupid shit that i've found out about.

[Cheshire Cat ^..^]

Feel free to spread anyone who wants.

[Cheshire Cat ^..^]

Jason Ramsey
Reason Magazine

"I spoke directly with Jay Stone who handles the Mass Gathering permits for the Utah County Health Department's Bureau of Environmental Health Services, and he stated unequivocably that the permit was applied for and granted by his department.

He also agreed to write a letter to this effect upon request. The questions about whether or not the permit was issued should be answered and not up for dispute.

I am currently attempting to reach the Utah County Board of Commissioners to resolve whether or not an additional permit would have been required by their office. Initial conversations with ‘Michelle' at their office seemed to indicate that this was not the case."

http://www.music-versus-guns.org/

[IntegraRacer]

Typical rave shutdown.
Iv been to 3 raves which were shutdown.
However no military or swat came, a bunch of police comes in as usuall, not sure if they abused their powered.
Thank god we dont have Swat here in Canada lol..