Utah Rave shutdown by Authorities

[byte]

Originally Posted by pitchedUP

The reason for that "excessive force" is because the police treated this as some sort of riot, in case things got out of hand during the raid.

In case! In case in case incase incase incaseincaseincaseincaseincase!

But it never happened! People were leaving peacefully. Raves get busted all the time, people are used to it! Usually they just go to an after party or another rave somewhere else. No one's gonna start a riot when a rave gets shut down. Have you ever heard of such a thing happening?

[Sentinel]

Originally Posted by Rapter

if you really think of it, they did not even need permits for a mass peaceful gathering as a permit for a gathering like that is Unconstitutional and they could have done it anyways without it. If you want me to point it out its right here:

Article [I.]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This post gets a gold star.

Unfortuanately, the constitution has been so altered by ammendments and various other laws that I'm sure the state of Utah can find some way to defend itself.

Can you say supreme court?

[pitchedUP]

Originally Posted by byte

In case! In case in case incase incase incaseincaseincaseincaseincase!

settle down man, you got all crazy with that....



like I said, they treated this as a riot type ordeal

[byte]

Originally Posted by pitchedUP

like I said, they treated this as a riot type ordeal

Agreed. And a riot and a rave are two completely different things. Hence why the force used was "excessive."

[pitchedUP]

Originally Posted by byte

Agreed. And a riot and a rave are two completely different things. Hence why the force used was "excessive."

You got thousands of people and handful of police officers, what the hell are you going do to. They had to treat it like a riot. The police do not know whats gonna happen so they had to use that "excessive" force.

[Nicci]

I've been to a a couple parties in utah that were shut down early. Couple cops come in shout everyone has to leave, and everyone kinda goes "aw" then walks out peacefully. I've never seen any need for that many cops.
No matter if they had the permits or not that doesn't give them reason to start beating people.

[Ishkur]

It's about damn time rave got to this point. In England it happened much quicker: Not a year or two that the scene exploded into public consciousness were there violent crackdowns all over the place. One particular event in 1989 saw two brothers, Paul and Phil Hartnoll, attend their very first warehouse party. Halfway through the night the party itself was ransacked by gorilla-faced guards and armed riot squad enforcers. Most ravers escaped; the promoters and some of the DJs were beaten to a pulp. One of the brothers was knocked down to the ground and had his face pushed into the muddy floor for 45 minutes, with a belligerant knee locked straight into his back and a truncheon pressed against the back of his neck. He could just barely breathe out of the corner of his mouth.

Six months later, the brothers formed a musical act called Orbital.

Now is not the time to flee. Now is the time to fight. Neoconservatism is fascism without the killing, and they dare not kill you less they get another Kent State on their hands. If you resist, things will get uglier, the public outcry will be greater. We need martyrs, and sympathy for the cause. Not for rave, not for drugs, not for electronic music. But for living the lives we want to live.

[ediblesound]

thanks,,, i had a post on here stating someone should post some of the events of the early days in the uk and put this silly business in perspective, i wish i hadn't deleted it!


it was titled " has anyone ever had their neck stomped on ? "



exactly--- why was i afraid to say it? i will say it now. the more atrocious the violence against the peace is the better.


gandhi comes to mind.


and also, why was i afraid to say this????:::::


that this is merely a glimpse of what is going to begin intruding on even the more conservative aspects of american civil liberty and livelihood in the coming years. there is a definitive plan of attack happening on the CONSTITUTION. and we are quickening in the rolling boil towards a military state. and THAT, my friends and censors, IS NO EXAGERATION

[djGT]

Originally Posted by Ishkur

Not for rave, not for drugs, not for electronic music. But for living the lives we want to live.

Make that a double WOOT!

Originally Posted by ediblesound

i wish i hadn't deleted it!

Well stop clicking on that delete option silly!

[ediblesound]

Originally Posted by djGT

Make that a double WOOT!

Well stop clicking on that delete option silly!

maybe the fed's should take away my delete button too, along with EVERYTHING ELSE THEY TOOK



thank god i'm not in prison. why????? because of MONEY AND LOT$ OF IT, LAWYERS..........








RAVERS RAVE ON! and whatever you do that makes happiness DO ON!!!!!!!!!!!! HAPPINESS DOES NOT COST MONEY! it is PRESERVED IN WISE STEWARDSHIP OF FREEDOM



DON"T BE AFRAID OF THE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS YOURS

[THE TRUTH]

Originally Posted by byte

Agreed. And a riot and a rave are two completely different things. Hence why the force used was "excessive."

No it was not excessive force or two different things when the crowd has the potential to turn into a riot. 3000 Ravers against 100 police/swat officers is a large mismatch. Ever seen what can happen when one person throws a punch in a crowded bar? It usually starts a chain reaction and cheapshots from other idiots usually follow. How do you think riots get started? One person does something and others follow and the situation gets out of control. The police took every precaution necessary to protect themselves if this situation turned any uglier than it did. They handled themselves.

Take my following statements as you may, but I am not siding with either the ravers or the Utah police on this:

No one can tell what was and wasn't excessive force from those video tapes (at least the ones I saw). Honestly, what I saw on the tapes I viewed, was people who had already been taken to the ground and resisting restraint, wheather that be to just calm the person or put the cuffs on someone. Everyone is so quick these days to cry excessive force when a suspect being taken into custody by force. No one with the exceptions of those who were arrested or "assaulted" by the police as they say they were will be able to say what was and wasn't excessive. How do you know from viewing those tapes that are posted all over the internet that those suspects being taken to the ground aren't the ones who the undercovers that were in the party saw carrying a weapon? How do you know they weren't the ones that were seen with drugs? How do you know that they didin't throw a punch at a cop? Fact is, you can't determine that from any of the videos.

And if you think that Utah's defense lawyers who are defending the police in whatever civil rights cases are filed aren't going to have a field day with a 16 year old who says he saw the police beating the shit out of some chick from 65 yards away in a crowd of 3000 because he wants to be a part of a civil rights movement that has stormed the EDM community worldwide, you are wrong. This will be very isolated as to what eyewitness accounts are actually credited in court.

[byte]

Originally Posted by THE TRUTH

The police took every precaution necessary to protect themselves if this situation turned any uglier than it did.

The police are not paid to protect themselves. They are there to protect the public, and that's not what happened Saturday night.

As I said before I have never heard of a rave bust turning into a riot, but as Ishkur said - maybe from now on it should!

[LRCN]

there wasn't 3000 people there

[THE TRUTH]

Originally Posted by byte

The police are not paid to protect themselves. They are there to protect the public, and that's not what happened Saturday night

You are an idiot if you think a police officer isn't going to protect his own life if it comes down to him or a suspect.

[byte]

Originally Posted by THE TRUTH

You are an idiot if you think a police officer isn't going to protect his own life if it comes down to him or a suspect.

Didn't say that. There is a difference between protecting your own life and threatening that of another.

Look, why were they dressed in camo? Why did they have a helicopter? Why did they confiscate video tapes? Obviously something suspicious was going on.

[THE TRUTH]

Originally Posted by byte

Didn't say that. There is a difference between protecting your own life and threatening that of another.

You obviously didn't read my post. There is no videotape evidence that the people being restrained DIDN'T deserve to not be taken down by force. The tape I saw showed two people on the ground being arrested by three police officers, both of whom were fighting back with the cops. YOU DON'T DO THAT.

Originally Posted by byte

Look, why were they dressed in camo? Why did they have a helicopter? Why did they confiscate video tapes? Obviously something suspicious was going on.

1. When a SWAT officer tells you to leave the area and stop filming and you don't do it, you are asking to be arrested for not obeying an officer. That's not excessive force nor threatening the life of another. That's doing their job and protecting thier lives and the lives of their counterparts, WHICH IS PART OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

2. Why were they dressed in camo and have a helicopter? Only they can answer that, I'm not thier logistics coordinator. But my guess is they were in camo due to waiting in the field out of sight to providing backup for any undercovers that were working the crowd. And they had a helicopter with a F.L.I.R. camera in it. Pretty obvious that video footage of a drug sale to an undercover is a surefire way to get the bust rather than a cops word against a drug dealers.

[Sentinel]

Ishkur and Edible, you've both said what I really wanted to say. Thanks.

Edible, were you serious about being rich?

So if this is gonna be a police state, I should arm myself





...... with information! ........


.... or just a gun.

[Deadly Groove]

Here's what one guy had to say about the Utah rave bust. I think you all might want to read.



I'm a 52 year-old father of one.

My only son, Brandon, is now 25 years old. He is a school teacher in Fort Worth, Texas. When he was 15, Brandon asked for my permission to go to a 'rave.'

Now I was more than a little disturbed by this, as most of you parents out there would be. My kid, a very bright boy with promise and intellect, wanting to go hang out at a party with a bunch of druggie heathens? Oh no, not in this house. So I said no, and Brandon did not go out that night.

Two weeks later, he asked again, and again I said no. Two or three weeks down the road, the same thing. Finally, in the heat of what was becoming a regularly-occurring heated argument, I gave in on one condition: I would be going with him.

Folks, these kids are OUR children. And let me tell you now, the kids are alright. I went to that rave. I went to the one he wanted to go to about a month later. Although he no longer lives close by, Brandon still attends raves, and with my blessing.

I've seen this community of "druggie heathens," and they're going to be just fine. If anything, the raving community has taught me several things as a father. Acceptance, for one. The kids, some sober and more than a few not, accepted me, an old fogie. Believe it or not, after talking with a lot of these previously-deemed miscreants, I've found that these kids are some of the brightest out there. Even those that are on drugs.

Raves are NOT scary. I've been far more scared driving up to an ATM near my home in Miami. I've been more afraid to walk down the streets in some nearby neighborhoods. There are no weapons at raves. There's security personnel checking everyone, and I mean everyone, including then 42-year old fathers.

Now I'm not saying I've never seen things that have scared me. Once, I saw a person overdose. On alcohol. In all of my experiences at raves over the past 10 years, I've never seen someone overdose on ecstacy or any other drug. Considering the amount of narcotics done in and around Miami, I'd say raves are one of the safest places for your children to be on the weekends, if they're not within your sight.

What we as parents are forgetting is the amount of LOVE in the raving community. By love, I do not mean sex. I mean genuine affection for the well being of others. These kids care for each other. They look out for their friends and make sure they're okay. They bear candy bracelets and hand them out to the people they meet, as a memento of their meeting and of the night. They're not gun-toting, rape and pillaging youth.

Do I agree with drug use? Absolutely not. However, these are an independent people, with minds of their own. At least they have people that care about their well being watching over them when they're on something.

These are OUR children. They are not terrorists. They should not be having assault rifles pointed in their direction. They should not be attacked for gathering peacefully and listening to music, sober or not. They should not be attacked like dogs, by dogs (two and four-legged).

People, stand up for your rights as citizens. Stand up for YOUR children. There are right and wrong ways to do things, and this was wrong. If you want to break up a rave, fine. Bring in officers and tell people to go home. You don't need camouflage, tear gas, attack dogs and assault rifles to do this. A simple, "We're shutting it down," will do.

Hopefully, some of these atrocities perpetuated upon the kids will be revisited upon officers with suspensions, firings and lawsuits. Just because you have a badge doesn't give you the right to break the law yourselves by beating defenseless children. You should be ashamed of yourselves. God IS watching.

To the kids out there posting and reading these comments, know this. Some of us parents love you. Some of us parents care for you. Some of us parents SUPPORT YOUR CAUSE, whether we agree with it or not. Peace, love, UNITY and respect. Please, be safe and continue to help others.

To the parents: listen to your kids. Show some interest in the same things they do. Connect. Be open-minded. Attend a rave and decide for yourself. Don't let society's stigmas rule your beliefs. Search out truth, and find satisfaction at coming to your conclusions through experience rather than simply believing everything you hear.

-A Truly Concerned Parent

[Rapter]

edit: the person above me is pretty damn right.




they needed a supeona/warrent anyways to even be on the property as it was private property, according to a higher law,(i.e. the constitution, as i pointed out for the "needing of a permit." if you want me to point out the 4th amendment for what i said above, i will.).


Also, The Truth, what would you do if you were confused, scared, and a k9 police trained attack dog barking at you, while being pulled down by 3 people? i know what i would do, struggle, any human would do that.

[Deadly Groove]

I also want to say to the US military, Don't you guys have better things to do like stopping terrorism. Leave the ravers alone and go get Bin Ladden and Zarkowi. Remember the terrorists are the enemy, not the ravers. If you attack the ravers well then the terrorists win. I wonder what they think about what took place in Utah. Maybe they're saying, those stupid Americans. Flying airplanes into buildings and suicide bombings aren't rocket science either though.