Utah Rave shutdown by Authorities

[THE TRUTH]

Originally Posted by Rapter

edit: the person above me is pretty damn right.




they needed a supeona/warrent anyways to even be on the property as it was private property, according to a higher law,(i.e. the constitution, as i pointed out for the "needing of a permit." if you want me to point out the 4th amendment for what i said above, i will.).

Not if they have probable cause, i.e. selling drugs to an undercover police officer.

Originally Posted by Rapter

Also, The Truth, what would you do if you were confused, scared, and a k9 police trained attack dog barking at you, while being pulled down by 3 people? i know what i would do, struggle, any human would do that.

Yes, I'm sure I would be confused. But if a cop told me to leave, I would. I always have, always will.

[byte]

Originally Posted by THE TRUTH

my guess is they were in camo due to waiting in the field out of sight to providing backup for any undercovers that were working the crowd.

Have we forgotten that this took place at 11:30 at night?

Originally Posted by THE TRUTH

And they had a helicopter with a F.L.I.R. camera in it. Pretty obvious that video footage of a drug sale to an undercover is a surefire way to get the bust rather than a cops word against a drug dealers.

How exactly does one capture a drug sale in a moving helicopter equipped with an FLIR?


Anyways, I've made my argument. All I can do at this point is level personal comments against you ()... you say you are not siding with either the ravers or the Utah police, but you are clearly in favour of the police! I think you are crazy if you don't mind going to your next party worrying about the potential of 100 police officers with dogs and helicopters storming in and arresting your friends. But maybe that's just me.

Peace.

[ediblesound]

i dream of the most amazing chillout morlack style, classical symphonic jam out electronic even sit down and dream concerts when we are old, that will swell into the beats of old times too, and will be far beyond any opera or jam band concert or symphony of old...

[Sentinel]

Originally Posted by Deadly Groove

I also want to say to the US military, Don't you guys have better things to do like stopping terrorism. Leave the ravers alone and go get Bin Ladden and Zarkowi. Remember the terrorists are the enemy, not the ravers.

I'm not going to get into the politics of this, but I almost agree with you, kind of...

But what I really want to say: THE US MILITARY WAS NOT INVOLVED. The thread title is misleading. The Utah national guard was involved, but that's the Utah Military (each state controls their own national guard). So please don't use this as a place to complain about the US Military.

Not if they have probable cause, i.e. selling drugs to an undercover police officer.

Are you sure? I think they still need a warrent of sorts... (they probably got one long beforehand)

I'm gonna do some legal research. Tell you what I find...

[Deadly Groove]

Originally Posted by Sentinal

So please don't use this as a place to complain about the US Military.

I have no complaints about the military. I think they are doing a great job. I'll leave this in another forum though. It's easy for political views to emerge from this topic.

[Ambiguity]

I doubt though that if the rave was illegal, it would have been as big of an issue as it is in Utah. I mean, around the Spanish fork area, around 85% are Mormon and don't drink or have any fun at all. Had it actually been in SLC, I don't think it would have been such a big deal. SLC is a lot less religious than the Provo or Spanish Fork is. Stop saying it was in SLC, it was a hour south and in the mountains. Nowhere near SLC.

[Ambiguity]

Originally Posted by THE TRUTH

You obviously didn't read my post. There is no videotape evidence that the people being restrained DIDN'T deserve to not be taken down by force.

BECAUSE THE COPS DESTROYED THE CAMERAS.

And don't call byte an idiot for disagreeing with you. That just makes your arguments even weaker if you have to resort to insulting to try to get your point across. Are we still in grade school?

[Ambiguity]

Originally Posted by byte

I think you are crazy if you don't mind going to your next party worrying about the potential of 100 police officers with dogs and helicopters storming in and arresting your friends. But maybe that's just me.

Maybe s/he doesn't go to parties.

[andar]

Originally Posted by DJ Xenomorph

You honestly think that soldiers bearing automatic weapons and ziplining from a helicopter to shut down a rave was driven by religion? bahahahahaha

Umm... yeah I kinda do. If you understand where it took place. See below... Who do you think is in charge of these soldiers some hippy from northern cali?

Originally Posted by Ambiguity

I doubt though that if the rave was illegal, it would have been as big of an issue as it is in Utah. I mean, around the Spanish fork area, around 85% are Mormon and don't drink or have any fun at all. Had it actually been in SLC, I don't think it would have been such a big deal. SLC is a lot less religious than the Provo or Spanish Fork is. Stop saying it was in SLC, it was a hour south and in the mountains. Nowhere near SLC.

[Sentinel]

As promised, I did a bit of research and found this on photographers' rights. Unless this source is incorrect or laws have changed, this basically proves that anyone and everyone was allowed to take as many photos as they wanted (unless the property owner says otherwise.) So the police could not say "put the camera down" of course, this is all based on the pricipal that laws and rights will be abided and respected...

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

[Ambiguity]

If the photographers were leaving as they were taking photos it should have been ok. If they were resisting to leave because they were taking pictures, then they were not in the right, but who deserves their property destroyed?

[Ambiguity]

Poll right here. http://forums.di.fm/the-chill-room/were-the-cops-right-to-shut-dow-the-utah-rave-85851/

[Nicci]

I took this from the utrave msg board.

13-4-2-1. Required.
No person shall permit, maintain, promote, conduct,
advertise, act as entrepreneur, undertake, organize,
manage, or sell or give tickets to an actual or
reasonably anticipated assembly of two hundred fifty
(250) or more people which continues or can
reasonably be expected to continue for twelve (12) or
more consecutive hours, whether on public or private
property unless a license to hold the assembly has
first been issued by the County Commissioners. (Ord.
No. 1971-4, Section 2, 7-7-71)

Here's the link in case anyone else is interested:
http://www.utahcountyonline.com/app...ATTY/Chap13.pdf

So, as long as this party was advertised to last less than 12 hours, there was no county commisioner's approval needed. Hope this helps. Don't let them get away with this shit. Hold them to their own laws. Good luck.

[Ambiguity]

You appear to be right. Good job.

[Sentinel]

Originally Posted by Nicci

I took this from the utrave msg board.

13-4-2-1. Required.
No person shall permit, maintain, promote, conduct,
advertise, act as entrepreneur, undertake, organize,
manage, or sell or give tickets to an actual or
reasonably anticipated assembly of two hundred fifty
(250) or more people which continues or can
reasonably be expected to continue for twelve (12) or
more consecutive hours, whether on public or private
property unless a license to hold the assembly has
first been issued by the County Commissioners. (Ord.
No. 1971-4, Section 2, 7-7-71)

Here's the link in case anyone else is interested:
http://www.utahcountyonline.com/app...ATTY/Chap13.pdf

So, as long as this party was advertised to last less than 12 hours, there was no county commisioner's approval needed. Hope this helps. Don't let them get away with this shit. Hold them to their own laws. Good luck.

GOLD STAR!!!

I know we're all waiting for news and stuff, but what if the case just gets dropped.... and that's the end of it? Do you think that could really happen?

[Smartco]

Originally Posted by byte

Ha! It'll take more than the U.S. millitary to shut down rave culture. More like the end of the earth!

Mmh... a strong statement there

I would't wanna put it that way myself. But I might be diggin' into this too seriously. I'll leave it on that note.

[DI Revolution]

http://www.4utah.com/local_news/loca...E-E8ECF01F1E78

http://www.4utah.com/local_news/loca...E-9988C45CE8A7

ABC news video segments of the incident

[Cheshire Cat ^..^]

Originally Posted by JMax

i feel sorry for you EDM fans of USA

Same with Czech people:

People were forced to go to near highway, which was closed several hours and then the waiting trucks were allowed to go dangerously among the desoriented people. Police confirmed death of young man attending the festival. Reportedly he was killed by truck which left. The reason of this death can be manipulated by police, no wittnesses were found to confirm police statement.

http://freetekno.org
http://indymedia.h-k.sk/newswire/display/84/index.php
http://tuleni.com/html/Cztekk05/pages/P1150525.html
http://czechtek.muzika.cz/foto/fotky...ec_policie.php

Originally Posted by Toasterman101

However when a member of the US armed forces tells you to get the hell otta there, you the f*ck do it with out a second look or word. Have some respect.

I'm sorry, WHAT respect? Why should I respect armed people who abuse their authority by beating up and intimidating unarmed people who questioned the authority? Are we talking about Gestapo here?

Originally Posted by XS-NRG

The police etc have to do their job and honestly

Well, then I guess no cops ever killed a black guy by brutal beating. All honestly.

People look at this and think it's SOOO bad, yet you look at some war torn countries that are fighting for a belief and kill each other and suicide bomb one another.

Excuse me, are you comparing US - the land of the free and the law - to Middle East or something? This is not some people fighting for freedom or killing religious enemies. This is fully armed soldiers beating up unarmed and non-hostile kids from their own country.

There had to be a perfectly legit reason for this to all have happened too.

Excuse me, do you just give blind trust to the police force and national defense? They can never be wrong?

The police/military/swat have to do what they have to do and when they go up against 1500-3000 people who knows what kind of riot or civil unrest could happen.

Well, next time a cop decides to tell you to get away from somewhere he should just shoot you - who knows what you carry in your back pocket.

Originally Posted by DMSO

i got taught a lesson once, so now when dealing with the police it's all "what do i need to do to not get beaten or put in jail". preservation of self.

You do realise that you're in a pathetic country when you need to worry about preservation of self from your own police, right?

Originally Posted by pitchedUP

If your gonna take down a large crowd, you gonna need body armor and assault rifles. The police was probably treating this as some sort of riot type thing, just in case the raid went out of hand.

I'm sorry, but in all the history of violent riots in democratic world the police only very very very rarely were allowed to use deadly weapons. Rubber bullets. Tear gas. Sticks. A game. But automatic weapons. NO.

Originally Posted by Ishkur

Now is not the time to flee. Now is the time to fight. Neoconservatism is fascism without the killing, and they dare not kill you less they get another Kent State on their hands. If you resist, things will get uglier, the public outcry will be greater. We need martyrs, and sympathy for the cause. Not for rave, not for drugs, not for electronic music. But for living the lives we want to live.

F***ing oath mate! US long deserves another late 60's.

Originally Posted by THE TRUTH

The tape I saw showed two people on the ground being arrested by three police officers, both of whom were fighting back with the cops.

Mate, did we watch the same tape?

When a SWAT officer tells you to leave the area and stop filming and you don't do it, you are asking to be arrested for not obeying an officer. That's not excessive force nor threatening the life of another. That's doing their job and protecting thier lives and the lives of their counterparts

Which line of their job manual says exactly that all video evidence of their actions should be confiscated?!?!

Permits or no f***ing permits! Why should a peaceful, law abiding citizen, be beaten up and intimidated by guns because he or she chose to go to an event which without his or her knowledge allegedely wasn't permitted?

[pyramidion]

Originally Posted by Cheshire Cat ^..^

Same with Czech people:


http://freetekno.org
http://indymedia.h-k.sk/newswire/display/84/index.php
http://tuleni.com/html/Cztekk05/pages/P1150525.html
http://czechtek.muzika.cz/foto/fotky...ec_policie.php


I'm sorry, WHAT respect? Why should I respect armed people who abuse their authority by beating up and intimidating unarmed people who questioned the authority? Are we talking about Gestapo here?


Well, then I guess no cops ever killed a black guy by brutal beating. All honestly.


Excuse me, are you comparing US - the land of the free and the law - to Middle East or something? This is not some people fighting for freedom or killing religious enemies. This is fully armed soldiers beating up unarmed and non-hostile kids from their own country.


Excuse me, do you just give blind trust to the police force and national defense? They can never be wrong?


Well, next time a cop decides to tell you to get away from somewhere he should just shoot you - who knows what you carry in your back pocket.


You do realise that you're in a pathetic country when you need to worry about preservation of self from your own police, right?


I'm sorry, but in all the history of violent riots in democratic world the police only very very very rarely were allowed to use deadly weapons. Rubber bullets. Tear gas. Sticks. A game. But automatic weapons. NO.


F***ing oath mate! US long deserves another late 60's.


Mate, did we watch the same tape?


Which line of their job manual says exactly that all video evidence of their actions should be confiscated?!?!

Permits or no f***ing permits! Why should a peaceful, law abiding citizen, be beaten up and intimidated by guns because he or she chose to go to an event which without his or her knowledge allegedely wasn't permitted?

+1


Blind obedience to authority in any form will always be detrimental to the welfare of all but the elite.
peace

[Toasterman101]

Originally Posted by Cheshire Cat ^..^

I'm sorry, WHAT respect? Why should I respect armed people who abuse their authority by beating up and intimidating unarmed people who questioned the authority? Are we talking about Gestapo here?

First I have a friend in the Military, and I know another guy whose going into the marines next year, I would really appreciate it if you didn't compare our military to the Nazi secret police. Shutting down a rave is a bit different from genocide my friend.

Originally Posted by Cheshire Cat ^..^

Excuse me, do you just give blind trust to the police force and national defense? They can never be wrong?

Damn straight.

Originally Posted by Cheshire Cat ^..^

You do realise that you're in a pathetic country when you need to worry about preservation of self from your own police, right?

Well we are still the richest and most powerful so we must be doing something good right? Frankly though, I could care less what you think of my country, I know is great that's all that counts. And I never never have worried about my safety from police or military. The only ones who do are the ones who are doing something wrong like idk drugs?

Truthfully I prize our police forces, they're some of the best in the world. I know a guy from the Ukraine who was telling me about how half the cops over there are sitting around smoking pot while people are being murdered in the streets. Anyone who thinks our police forces are oppresive, I encourage you to move to the Ukrain or better China! Yeah go to china! When the chinese military is running you over with tanks come and talk to me about how "oppressive" our forces are.